The Evolution of evcforum.net

From EvC Forum: What ever happend to Dan Carroll? Warning: Serenity spoilers!: I think that the prime problem is that this forum has matured to the point that pretty much all the good stuff has been done several times over. Also, the population has grown such that it can no longer be the "happy little community" that it was.The Proposed New Topics (PNT) forum was started about 1 1/2 years ago. In all, I think it is a positive if not always perfectly executed concept (I am heavily skeptical about the new "In the News" forum. My instinct is that it function mainly as a PNT dodge). What would things be like without the PNT process?The "Boot Camp" was an effort to isolate the "bad debate" away from the "good debate". Probably a failed concept - An evolutionary dead end.AdminnemooseusThis message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 10-22-2005 08:23 PM

Are you a Malthusian doomsayer?

This is a reply for Mick from here.Yes, but I bet you enjoyed these posts and looked forward to receiving replies. Anyonw reading these posts who feel they are ”silly’ can just stop reading and look for stuff that they are interested in.One of the things that attracted me here was the ”whacko’ topics started by non-experts. I used to love reading these posts and then sit back and admire responses from classy posters such as Edge, Joe Meert, or John that systematically ripped the arse out of what these whackos posted. It was very educational, hell even I read the science topics. It is too clinical here now, EvC’s soul has gone. The decline only came about after the Boot Camp and PNT concepts were introduced. I mean who are we to tell people like Buz how he should think, the guys been a fundy for about 200 years and we are arrogant enough to tell him he must change his thinking process or be banned!! Let the guy post whatever he wants, his fundy mindset is needed around here as it is a good example to lurkers of how sill creation science arguments are! But, it is also entertaining when the real experts provide real scientific responses to these guys, I looked forward to lunchtimes when I could have a cup of tea and read EvC, but now all it takes is a five minute browse and I switch off and go read a book. And just how many people have taken a self-imposed leave of absence in the last 6 months or so? Dan and Hambre’s comic ”duels’ were ”kin hilarious, these guys have moved on. Mammathus, a superb and very knowledgeable poster whose demolition of old senile Davison was amazing, very informative, where has Mamm gone? Charles King, John, Rei, Doc, Fortenberry, I could go on and on, and I would be willing to bet a lot of these posters are bored to tears because topics need to go through a screening process before being promoted. And, hey let’s be honest here some of the promoted topics should never pass even a cursory screening. It is time to retire the PNT forum and it is also time to bring back the Free for All before EvC expires. So your certainly not enjoying EvC as much as you used to, what do you think is wrong now, and what would make it better here?Brian.

It would be like the good old days and the site would probably better moderated as a member could point out to their opponent where they have to support what they are saying instead of admins having to do it all. The site should self moderate with the admins only being required to deal with outrageous behaviour and intervene at the request of members.Too much is expected of Admins here, just look at what happens to most people when they become an admin. Truthlover always posted excellent, well thought out posts, a very humble and helpful guy, he gets made an admin and we hardly ever see him and he is Admin of no less than TWENTY FOUR forums! I realise he is most likely very busy with other work, but babysitting 24 forum to the level Percy wants is an impossible task.Then look at Hambre, he becomes an admin and we never see him againWhere is admindawg?Where is adminJazzlover?Who the hell is AdminMike?Has adminTC ever done any admin work?Why do you think so many admins do next to nothing here?Maybe we should contact those absent member and ask why they dont post so much now?It is all left to guys like Ben, Jar, Nosey, yourself, and the queen to do 99% of the work here. Personally I really do not have the time to read through and essentially rewrite some of the PNT's, but I could hapily spare the time to jump on outrageous behaviour or respond to a members request for intervention.We need to do something cause this place is going tits up.My suggestion is to retire the PNT forum.Brian.

I disappeared for many months a year and a half ago. And I have toyed with leaving every once in a while. However it has not been because of PNT or bootcamp.Frankly I was annoyed with some of the timewasters here. Then again I did agree that some of the punishments were quick and perhaps without merit.In any case, while you have a right to say why you liked the wilder and woolier EvC, and maybe it should return (?), it's a bit unfair to use the loss of posters as evidence for your argument. People may go for many different reasons.I miss many of the posters who have gone away (or just post less) but I would not want to speak for why they left. Rei was one of my absolute favorites. She said why she left. Apparently in a debate with me regarding a personal issue she became so upset she decided never to post here again (except one where she noted that).I am unsure if it was her misunderstanding of my position or Crash's post that she was misunderstanding my position which sent her over the edge (she went berserk on him before disappearing), but I wish I had never said anything. I feel bad that I contributed to a loss of one of the most valuable members at EvC, especially since it involved a simple misunderstanding of what I wrote.But this example is significant. My decision to stay or go has always been about the value I feel I get from this site. Am I helping others and am I helping myself? Sometimes real life becomes more important and time consuming, and sometimes dealing with certain posters becomes so annoying that it just doesn't seem worth continuing.My guess would be that is what some of the posters have disappeared might have felt. It sure was in Rei's case.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

As a relative newcomer in comparison to some of you, I do not see the forum as going to hell in a handbasket or anything of the sort. I will defend EvC when it is attacked and critisized in a negative way.I can say that people come and people go and that is life and that is the way that it happens around here.With our chat feature now operable,(Holmes do you have a way to hook up with chat?) we now have sped up the process of analysing, determining, and approving (or rejecting) many PNT topics in a much faster way. EvC will always survive so long as Percy chooses to have it operate. Perhaps some of the old ways were better, but I can attest that some of the new ways are working quite well.Communication is the key to success, here.This message has been edited by Phat, 10-23-2005 06:13 AM

I sypmathize with your nostalgia Mr"J".I have a different theory though. Forums are used for people who have periods of time to read and post during the day. If that time is taken up, they're never going to prioritize a forum.Also, you can de-sensitize aswell. If you're an "addict-poster", as Rei seemed to be, then you can go cold turkey in about 4 days, and then you simply don't come back.If you're like me, and you like reading a fair amount and want to learn, then you stay to make the odd post. Not guilty. (Hover over my name)....Good news for you is I've pokemon-evolved into half-Dan, half-Hambre.(ps. I don't know if you spell sympathize, prioritize, or de-sensitize with a "Z". Forgive me.)This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 10-23-2005 08:56 AM

I'm relatively new here, so I haven't seen much in the way of dropouts, except CK and Faith.The world has always been full of change, and we should expect that. When the world stops being full of change, it will have become a dead rock. That there is change at EvC is only a reflection of change elsewhere. People get new interests, and move on.The PNT forum seems fine to me. It stops a few poorly conceived threads, but it mainly functions to have threads that are reasonably well thought through.If you want to see what online debating is like without moderation, try usenet. It gets pretty rowdy. People move on. Some forums become overtaken by trolls. The general level of debate is far better on EvCforum than it is on usenet.I do think the administrators were a little heavy handed when I first started reading the forum. They seem to have relaxed that a little, which is for the better.EvC is evolving. It isn't evolving for the better; it isn't evolving for the worse. It is evolving for what works. And what works changes with the temperament of the time. If it seems that there is no set direction to the evolution of EvC - well, what can we expect. After all, we have been saying that there is no set direction to biological evolution. Why should we expect it to be different for the evolution of EvC?

CK droped out!Ah man... that sux

'Fraid so.See Message 5

Hi H, Don’t you feel though that once you have identified a timewaster you just ignore their posts? For example, someone like Tal is a complete waste of time, so I just ignore what he posts as it is clear he is just trying to irritate people. I fully agree and wasn’t suggesting that this was the reason for everyone leaving, though I do feel that some of the more prolific posters became pissed off with the clinical approach we have here now. Obviously I cannot say for certain, I would need to ask each one why they left, but I find it very coincidental. Well, to be fair, I didn’t say this is why they definitely left, I suggested that it MAY be why they left, and it may indeed be a reason why SOME of them left. But, I find it unusual that someone, say Dan, who would make a few posts every day would suddenly stop. Dan is a natural comedian (as is Hambre), and he (they) had an Aladdin’s cave of material here at EvC, and I certainly think it is POSSIBLE that they became bored with the new format. I do apologise for this, I wasn’t aware of this discussion and certainly would not have mentioned it if I had known it would make you feel bad, sorry. I agree, but, given the high regard in which you are held by most of the members here, wouldn’t you feel the need to announce to them that you were going and the reasons why? I am sure you are right in some cases, but I wonder just how many have left because of the new format.Are you enjoying EvC as much as you did maybe a year ago?Brian.

I still maintain my opinion that the PNT concept has both failed to maintain topic quality and inhibited free debate. Apart from anything else it is now much harder to spin off a sub-topic to debate an interesting sub-point.

Hi Mr. Jack,This is an excellent point: I just made the same point to Phat on another thread (string ), sometimes a member has to wait days on a spin off topic being approved, by that time the heat has gone.Would you like to see the PNT gone?Brian.

I'd say that's a bonus.

Indeed, but the reasons why they get a new interest MAY be down to them being bored with the new format here at EvC. As you said, you are relatively new here and probably cannot fully appreciate what I am saying. But, EvC used to be a hive of activity and I bet the site traffic/average postings per day has dropped recently because things have not changed for the better. But we always did have some well thought out threads, and even the poorly conceived threads used to still run for a good bit before dying, if they did die that is. I have been a member at sites without mods, but only for a very short time. We weeded ours out here, because some moderation is always required. The general level of debate here used to be much better than it is now. I think the admins have ”relaxed’ because they are being asked to do too much. Apart form Ben, Jar, Nosey, and the queen, the rest of us hardly do anything, although this may be for a variety of reasons. Personally, I gave up admin because my thesis was about due and I didn’t have time to do any admin duties. I volunteered to do a little earlier this year when Percy was extremely busy. But being asked to vet every post for quality doesn’t inspire me to do admin full-time at all. It is far easier skimming posts for personal abuse and off-topic responses than it is scrutinising every detail of every post in your forum(s). But it isn’t working, certainly nothing near as well as it worked in the past. EvC is on life support. Because EvC is a product of ID Brian.