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Author Topic:   Old Earth Flood Geology
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 61 of 78 (378845)
01-22-2007 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by arachnophilia
01-22-2007 12:05 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
what happens on the other end of the plates? the bits that are separating?
The earth is trying to equalize so they are moving away from the mid-ocean ridges. As it floats away toward the trenches more lava outpours to the mid-ocean ridges.
what lava?
Water is still venting on either side of the mid-ocean ridges(hydrothermal vents).
As the earth seeks to equalize the mid-ocean ridges expand pushing the tectonic plates toward the trenches.
Types of Ridges - Dive & Discover
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 62 of 78 (378846)
01-22-2007 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by johnfolton
01-22-2007 12:14 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
why is there lava?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 63 of 78 (378851)
01-22-2007 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by arachnophilia
01-22-2007 12:16 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
why is there lava?
Because the fountains of the deep cavitated away the dense rock above the basalt the lava under caused the mid-ocean ridges to form.
With the weight of the planet pressing down and the more flexible basalt exposed it pressed upward.
Its all apart of the hydroplate theory it explains the mid-ocean basalt mountains ranges when other mountains on the planet are not basalt.
When God stopped the fountains of the deep the mantle above the basalt on either side of the exposed basalt pressed down accelerating the uprising of the basalt mountains and hydralically pressed excess water beneath the trenches in response to this uprising.
The lava under the basalt mountains is still pressing upwards causing the tectonic plates to float quite slowly towards the trenches.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 64 of 78 (378854)
01-22-2007 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by johnfolton
01-22-2007 12:35 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
there's a lot of made up words and general nonsense in this post. let me edit into a correct answer, so we can move on.
why is there lava?
the weight of the planet
mass + gravity = weight = pressure = heat.
the inside of the planet is hot enough to melt rock.
where is the water?


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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 65 of 78 (378857)
01-22-2007 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by arachnophilia
01-22-2007 12:45 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
why is there lava?
the weight of the planet
mass + gravity = weight = pressure = heat.
the inside of the planet is hot enough to melt rock.
where is the water?
The basalt mid-ocean ridges has lava beneath pushing unlike the tectonic plates that have water pressure pushing them up. Which is why you have hydrothermal vents venting water where the tectonic plates meets the basalt mid-ocean ridges.
The tectonic plate (hydroplate theory) is floating upon this water layer because of the incompressible nature of water.
Was it this hydroplate water that was pressed below the trenches or was ocean waters above that was being sucked back into the earth as the mid-ocean ridges rose.
The waters above the tectonic plate increased as the flood waters rushed off the earth. This increase in weight helped cause the mid-ocean ridges to rise.
As the earth seeks to equalize we see a lake draining into the earth in iceland its believed due to faults deep within the earth.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../10/1001_lostlake.html

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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2931 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 66 of 78 (378860)
01-22-2007 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by johnfolton
01-22-2007 1:36 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
Whatever writes:
Which is why you have hydrothermal vents venting water where the tectonic plates meets the basalt mid-ocean ridges.
Wow, I don't know what to say. You really think this is the case? Really? Hydrothermal vents vent water because water seeps down into cracks and crevisses. When it encounters warmer rocks (near magma) it heats up, becomes less dense, and rises violently to the surface. Because of the great pressure at depth the water remains liquid although it may be extremely hot (much hotter than 100 degrees C). This isn't a theory, a possible explanation, etc. Literally tens of millions have been spent on studying these vents all over the world. While mysteries remain, we know pretty much exactly what causes hydrothermal vents, black smokers, cold seeps, etc.
btw - (and just to brag ) I have actually been to a deep sea vent (well, via ROV but still) and collected giant tube worms and clams. As well as the beautiful beasties in my avatar.
Edited by Lithodid-Man, : Forgot to mention the Bathynomus giganteus from my avatar!

Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

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Equinox
Member (Idle past 5142 days)
Posts: 329
From: Michigan
Joined: 08-18-2006


Message 67 of 78 (378899)
01-22-2007 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by johnfolton
01-19-2007 1:20 AM


Hijacked by absurdity
OK, please let’s stay on topic. This is not a thread to debate young earth flood geology. There are multiple other threads for that. Young earth flood geology is well known by geologists to be as fraudulent as flat-earth geology (just check the statements by the geological associations). Please, before posting here, please refer to the opening post for a reorientation. Specifically, stating that the whole fossil record is due to the flood, or that zircons prove the earth is 6K years old are off topic. You can have all those discussions - just have them somewhere else.
The only link much of the discussion so far has to the thread topic is “where did the water come from and where did it go”, and even that is a little thin - since even with that we have to have normal earth conditions for much of the earth’s history. Please focus on the geology, especially on what an old earth, with a recent (under 1 million years ago) global flood would look like. There is a lot more to look at there than just the water question (plus, much of the geologic feature Charley cites are best explained by an old earth). Charley - as a YEC, you are welcome to think outside your view and talk about OE flood geology here if you like - if not, please stop hijacking the thread (and keep YEC flood geology to YEC flood geology threads). Thank you.
Iceage wrote:
quote:
Be careful, as the come back is that these stories are carried down after the tower of Babel, which explains the differences. You didn't say if your friend believes in Babel or not.
Yes, I intend to check on why the “flood stories in all cultures” is being cited as evidence. I’ve heard YECs and others cite that as evidence that the flood was GLOBAL - effecting everyone, and thus the issue. However, let’s not focus on that now. As for Babel, my friend takes a very similar view of Babel - and a more defendable one than YEC. He accepts that languages evolved as we know (with one branch having a latin like ancestor that divided and speciated into Italian, French, German, etc, ) and that we can see the process continuing with microevolution leading to dialects like NY English vs deep south English. He asserts the literal historicity of the Babel story by saying that Babel happened very early, and was the initial confusing of the languages, with the known evolution happening after that. Sly, as you say (or at least more plausible and more consistent with the evidence). That, however, is worthy of whole other thread. For this thread, let’s look at the old earth flood geology.

-Equinox
_ _ _ ___ _ _ _
You know, it's probably already answered at An Index to Creationist Claims...
(Equinox is a Naturalistic Pagan -  Naturalistic Paganism Home)

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Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 68 of 78 (378905)
01-22-2007 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Equinox
01-22-2007 10:58 AM


Re: Hijacked by absurdity
a reminder that you will get NOTHING BUT ABSURDITY from "charley".
You are wasting time with every word you post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Equinox, posted 01-22-2007 10:58 AM Equinox has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 69 of 78 (379084)
01-22-2007 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by johnfolton
01-22-2007 1:36 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
The basalt mid-ocean ridges has lava beneath pushing unlike the tectonic plates that have water pressure pushing them up.
so there's lava on one end of the plate, but water on the other end?


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edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 70 of 78 (379088)
01-22-2007 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by johnfolton
01-21-2007 10:13 PM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
quote:
You have massive plates believed subducting under the trenches. So how come one weighs less over the trenches?
Because there is less mass between you and the center of the earth when you sail over a trench. That is because you have relatively more water and less lithosphere under you. Rock has more mass per unit volume than water. Very simple, really.
quote:
Massive amounts of water subducted into the earth beneath the trenches, or beneath the dense subducting tectonic plates?
Why beneath???
No, Charley. The water is simpy deeper there. Charley, you also weigh less in your house than in your yard. Gravity over a region can be increased by a mantle of snowfall. This kind of thing is easiy measured.
quote:
It seems easier to believe somethings wrong with the tectonic plate theory.
'
Sure. Weird that nobody thought of this before you. Alas, but no, you are incorrect. Tectonics explains the gravity anomalies quite readily.

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edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 71 of 78 (379090)
01-22-2007 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by johnfolton
01-22-2007 1:36 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
The basalt mid-ocean ridges has lava beneath pushing ...
Pushing what? Where?
...unlike the tectonic plates that have water pressure pushing them up.
What do you mean 'pushing them up'?
Which is why you have hydrothermal vents venting water where the tectonic plates meets the basalt mid-ocean ridges.
As far as I can tell this is gibberish.
The tectonic plate (hydroplate theory) is floating upon this water layer because of the incompressible nature of water.
What is your evidence for this layer of water?
Was it this hydroplate water that was pressed below the trenches or was ocean waters above that was being sucked back into the earth as the mid-ocean ridges rose.
Some water is entrained into the subduction zone, however, the main reason for a gravit anomaly is the depression of the oceanic crust and its replacement by seawater.
The waters above the tectonic plate increased as the flood waters rushed off the earth.
Nonsense. That would mean that high density mantle material was repaced in the geological column by low density water. You need a better mechanism.
This increase in weight helped cause the mid-ocean ridges to rise.
Heh. Why weren't the ridges depressed then? They are basalt also...
As the earth seeks to equalize we see a lake draining into the earth in iceland its believed due to faults deep within the earth.
What is the point here? Where do you think the water went?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by johnfolton, posted 01-22-2007 1:36 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 72 of 78 (379151)
01-23-2007 4:06 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by edge
01-22-2007 8:55 PM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
Equinox does not want to discuss YEC Geology and the implications that the solar system being young because of Titan magnetosphere still has its water canopy that has not yet disappated into space.
Ned gets uptight when one discusses stuff like this and Equinox is not receptive so if your interested about YEC suggest you checkout Walt Browns website link provided in an earlier post.
P.S. This link is about Titans magnetosphere not Saturns nor about the bogus concentration underestimated in respect to the the water ions venting from Enceladus.
Newsroom | Southwest Research Institute
Enjoy,
Charley
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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Randy
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 420
From: Cincinnati OH USA
Joined: 07-19-2002


Message 73 of 78 (379167)
01-23-2007 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by johnfolton
01-23-2007 4:06 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
quote:
Equinox does not want to discuss YEC Geology and the implications that the solar system being young because of Titan magnetosphere still has its water canopy that has not yet disappated into space.
It's Saturn's magnetosphere not Titan's and 40 ionized water molecules per cc hardly constitutes a water canopy. Further Saturn's magnetic field is about 580 times the strength of earth's. I have not read enough of your posts to know if everything you post is absurd as Ned says but this certainly is and most of the other stuff I have read from you is also absurd. Water from a magetosphere could not provide water for either a YEC or OEC global flood and it has been clearly explained why not.
Edited by Randy, : spelling

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Randy
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 420
From: Cincinnati OH USA
Joined: 07-19-2002


Message 74 of 78 (379168)
01-23-2007 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Equinox
01-22-2007 10:58 AM


Re: Hijacked by absurdity
quote:
OK, please let’s stay on topic. This is not a thread to debate young earth flood geology. There are multiple other threads for that. Young earth flood geology is well known by geologists to be as fraudulent as flat-earth geology (just check the statements by the geological associations). Please, before posting here, please refer to the opening post for a reorientation. Specifically, stating that the whole fossil record is due to the flood, or that zircons prove the earth is 6K years old are off topic. You can have all those discussions - just have them somewhere else.
It is true that the OEC global flood avoids many of the geological absurdities of the YEC flood but it still has many problems. In addition to the "where did the water come from and where did it go question", there are big issues of biogeography and biodiversity and the fact that there is no real evidence of this global flood in the world's geology. Most OECs seem to accept a local flood. However, wmscott who used to post here seems to be a global flood OEC. His old thread on the subject is closed but you can browse it
HERE
I think the water problem is huge for OEC flood models because the source of the water must either be around for the 4.5 billion years of earth history or come from outer space which has huge problems due to kinetic energy considerations.
Randy

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 75 of 78 (379172)
01-23-2007 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by johnfolton
01-23-2007 4:06 AM


Re: intro to geology . . .sort of
Equinox didn't say anything about NOT wanting to talk about YEC Geology (which by the way is an oxymoron). He just wants to make sure you stop talking about it in THIS THREAD which is about old earth creationism.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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