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Author Topic:   When the flood waters receded, where did they go ?
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 131 (13090)
07-08-2002 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by John
07-08-2002 10:27 AM


John
We all know empirically (ie fromthe strata) what happened. It's just an issue of when.
[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 07-08-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by John, posted 07-08-2002 10:27 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by John, posted 07-08-2002 8:41 PM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 131 (13091)
07-08-2002 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by edge
07-08-2002 3:07 PM


Edge
Your syntectonic conglomerates could quite easily be tectonic pre-flood phenomena - we had truly rapid uplift. The flood occurred in stages, the early ones of course with the land out of water.
We know that the flood if it occurred was a tectonic event. We know that the lava flows intersperse with the water laid strata. Of course most of the earth's vulcanism happened during the flood for us. It wasn't pretty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by edge, posted 07-08-2002 3:07 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by edge, posted 07-08-2002 9:38 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 131 (13092)
07-08-2002 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Tranquility Base
07-08-2002 8:34 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
We all know empirically (ie fromthe strata) what happened. It's just an issue of when.
No 'we' don't. You know a flood engulfed the planet. Others know differently.
I don't see how the strata can tell both tales. This post just doesn't make sense. Sorry
------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 8:34 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 8:48 PM John has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 131 (13094)
07-08-2002 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Joe Meert
07-08-2002 4:24 PM


Joe
The ark may have been sealed for more reason than one.
Water and fire represent the washing and refining of the Holy Spirit. The flood itself represents baptism. It all has a purpose. The volcanic ash provides minerals for future growth just as the action of the Holy Spirit is one of fruitfullnes in the life of a Christian. What a wonderful picture of God's redeptive actions you have painted for us Joe. Our God truly is one that 'fleshes' things out in us and our land which is a picture of the 'holy ground'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Joe Meert, posted 07-08-2002 4:24 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Joe Meert, posted 07-08-2002 9:27 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 131 (13095)
07-08-2002 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by John
07-08-2002 8:41 PM


John
The data tells a story of marine innundations - whetehr it covered 80% or 100% of the land surface. After that it is an issue of when.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by John, posted 07-08-2002 8:41 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by edge, posted 07-08-2002 9:42 PM Tranquility Base has replied
 Message 69 by John, posted 07-09-2002 9:44 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 131 (13096)
07-08-2002 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by gene90
07-08-2002 7:05 PM


Gene90
If these processes occurred between Cambiran to Cretaceous I would definitely say you should schedule them for the flood.
Just as with coal the flood answer can end up explaining the data better. I know you don't agree.
Creationists have speculated about marring of the solar system via various potential meteoric events at the time of the fall or the flood.

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 Message 44 by gene90, posted 07-08-2002 7:05 PM gene90 has not replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 52 of 131 (13099)
07-08-2002 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Tranquility Base
07-08-2002 8:47 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Joe
The ark may have been sealed for more reason than one.
Water and fire represent the washing and refining of the Holy Spirit. The flood itself represents baptism. It all has a purpose. The volcanic ash provides minerals for future growth just as the action of the Holy Spirit is one of fruitfullnes in the life of a Christian. What a wonderful picture of God's redeptive actions you have painted for us Joe. Our God truly is one that 'fleshes' things out in us and our land which is a picture of the 'holy ground'.

JM: But Setterfield said the ark had windows that were open so that Noah could record the effects of people being scalded to death by the activity. Basically, your answer is 'When pressed for details, respond with a miracle!". That's particularly poor theology and even worse science! I'll add this to the list of items creationists dodge.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 8:47 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 53 of 131 (13102)
07-08-2002 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Tranquility Base
07-08-2002 8:40 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Your syntectonic conglomerates could quite easily be tectonic pre-flood phenomena - we had truly rapid uplift.
And that is one reason there was never a global flood.
quote:
The flood occurred in stages, the early ones of course with the land out of water.
That is interesting since these uplifts occur throughout the geological column.
quote:
We know that the flood if it occurred was a tectonic event. We know that the lava flows intersperse with the water laid strata.
TB, you are simply bouncing from one fact and off another like a ping pong ball. Never studying them, never taking in the big picture, never realizing that one of your stories negates the previous. None of this requires, or even indicates the possibility of a global flood.
quote:
Of course most of the earth's vulcanism happened during the flood for us. It wasn't pretty.
No, and it isn't very pretty for you argument either. You simply ignore those facts that are inconvenient. You have been given an indication of the degree of sterilization that would have cleaned the earth of every living thing and yet you forge on. Your model has cooked the earth and you walk away oblivious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 8:40 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Joe Meert, posted 07-08-2002 9:44 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 54 of 131 (13103)
07-08-2002 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Tranquility Base
07-08-2002 8:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
The data tells a story of marine innundations - whetehr it covered 80% or 100% of the land surface. After that it is an issue of when.
Hunh? What's this 80% business? I hate to tell you, but 80% isn't a global flood. And actually, if I had to guess it was probably more like 30-40%, since that is an estimate of the maximum Cretaceous transgression in North America. I suppose that's as good a guess as any, without getting into measuring unconformities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 8:48 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 10:07 PM edge has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 55 of 131 (13104)
07-08-2002 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by edge
07-08-2002 9:38 PM


Edge
As you know, creationists are fond of the Gishian gallop. It requires the debater to launch a series of unrelated (and unsupported) claims. When challenged on the details, claim a miracle and then change the topic. This modus operandi has worked well so don't expect to see it abandonded.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by edge, posted 07-08-2002 9:38 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 10:09 PM Joe Meert has replied
 Message 62 by edge, posted 07-08-2002 11:06 PM Joe Meert has not replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 131 (13110)
07-08-2002 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by edge
07-08-2002 9:42 PM


Edge
Much, much more than 40% of the area of the earth has paleozoic and/or mesozoic marine deposits. Neither of you have even agreed with me that we don't even expect to see this final covering due to erosion. If this was a logical discussion surely you would make that concession.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by edge, posted 07-08-2002 9:42 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Joe Meert, posted 07-08-2002 10:31 PM Tranquility Base has replied
 Message 61 by edge, posted 07-08-2002 11:04 PM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 131 (13111)
07-08-2002 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Joe Meert
07-08-2002 9:44 PM


Joe
Just where exactly did I do these things in this thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Joe Meert, posted 07-08-2002 9:44 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Joe Meert, posted 07-08-2002 10:29 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 58 of 131 (13116)
07-08-2002 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Tranquility Base
07-08-2002 10:09 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Joe
Just where exactly did I do these things in this thread?

The correct term is 'threads'. If you are talking specifically about this thread then look at your comment about why the ark is sealed. No science, just miracles.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 10:09 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 59 of 131 (13117)
07-08-2002 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Tranquility Base
07-08-2002 10:07 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Edge
Much, much more than 40% of the area of the earth has paleozoic and/or mesozoic marine deposits. Neither of you have even agreed with me that we don't even expect to see this final covering due to erosion. If this was a logical discussion surely you would make that concession.

JM: But it's not 100% and that is what you require. Anything less is not global. Or are you willing to compromise scripture? Most other creationists are willing to compromise scripture (like Setterfiled, Austin, Baumgardner). Are you joining the pack.
Cheers
Joe Meert
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 10:07 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-08-2002 11:00 PM Joe Meert has not replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 131 (13120)
07-08-2002 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Joe Meert
07-08-2002 10:31 PM


Joe
We could only say empirically 100% if the top flood layer had remained everywhere. Of course no one could possibly expect that. The data is consistent with the expectations of our model.
And exactly how do Austin and Baumgardner question scripture?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Joe Meert, posted 07-08-2002 10:31 PM Joe Meert has not replied

  
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