Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics

Hokay. What do I do?I have no objection, BTW, to it just being a general debate, but if you'd prefer 1-on-1, that's up to you.May I apologize for the intemperate nature of my earlier remarks. I was tired and emotional in both senses of that phrase.

Apology accepted.The reason for the Great Debate idea was to avoid those that just like to incite and run. I really do just want to look at facts.There seems to be other interest in this topic. If you're up to helping me keep it civil, I'll open it up to the general populace.What do you think?Also not sure what forum it would fit into.Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.

Coffe House, I guess. It's not really EvC as such ... unless a creationist wants to tell us how disease is caused by demonic possession.

I will open it to the general populace then.Thanks for the topic idea.

See the It's not impossible... "Proposed New Topic".Preliminary discussion can happen in this topic. Brian and Scottness only, please.Adminnemooseus

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I was wondering if you wanted to start up a great debate topic derived from the discussion we were having or maybe another topic we are mutually interested in.I am not interested in discussing topics regarding the details of evolution or QM at the moment but perhaps later and if they are focused enough to ensure that we don't get off into some of your more oft repeated issues (Haeckel, Whale evolution, etc).I had one idea. I have been meaning to read Sam Harris' books and I think it would be neat if you could pick a book that takes the opposite perspective, we could both read them and discuss the relative merits in a GD.What do you think?

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I think that sounds interesting. I am not sure of which books exactly off the top of my head, and I suspect we would be discussing theology or philosophy as much as science, but it might do great.

It would be a little bit of science, religion, and politics along the same lines we were discussing in the other thread. I was looking at getting the following book:Letters to a Christian NationThere is also a few talks from the Beyond Belief conference that Percy posted about that are related. Here is the link to the video: http://beyondbelief2006.org/WatchTalk 3 on session 1 is Sam Harris.
I think you may be interested also in Talk 2 on session 1 by a guy named Lawrence Krauss who is a scientist who takes a more moderate position.The other one I think may interest you is Joan Roughgarden on session 3. I would be curious to see if she takes a position akin to yours on the issue of science and religion.That is of course assuming this is a topic that interests YOU. This just happens to be an area that has facinated me recently.Maybe another forum buddy could recommend a book that is in response to or at least antithetical to "Letters"?

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I could just do my own responses perhaps rather than bring on another book. That may make it easier. Btw, this isn't the most interesting topic but the idea is interesting. However, this may be a wide-ranging "debate", perhaps more a discussion, considering the range covered, but that's right up my alley.Also, while I DO appreciate your defense of me, I think perhaps you guys ought to see that publicly mentioning someone, particularly highly educated and accomplished people, only have a glimmer of rationality comes off as particularly disrespecful, though I see you mean it as a recommendation. My point is that within the evo camp, the level of disrespect for critics is extremely high and imo, extremely unwarranted.Most of the educated people that reject evo tenets are not ignorant of what evos teach, and many of us used to be on the other side. It's be nice if people here remembered that.

I'll watch the video or read the book and make a decision then, but I am toying with offering another book as an alternative worldview, "The Power of Intention" by Wayne Dyer. It's more a self-help, spiritual principle, New Age type book, but the principles for the most part he discusses are spiritual principles taught by Jesus.I disagree with the lack of emphasis on the Cross and suffering, but the book espouses an interactive reality created by our interaction with God, whome he calls a field of Intention and our Source, with our beliefs, faith and actions. You might have seen the guy on PBS.I think it may be refreshing to include the book or video series since it's really not religion-specific, but is more about spirituality that exists for all in any religion, ostensibly. I, of course, am not quite as ecunemical as he is, but I do think the realities of people and the spiritual dimensions are the same, but that we all need the Saviour and cannot expect to do it all on our own.But it's a positive view on "religion" and theism that may work to further the discussion.

I'll watch the video or read the book and make a decision then, but I am toying with offering another book as an alternative worldview, "The Power of Intention" by Wayne Dyer. It's more a self-help, spiritual principle, New Age type book, but the principles for the most part he discusses are spiritual principles taught by Jesus.I disagree with the lack of emphasis on the Cross and suffering, but the book espouses an interactive reality created by our interaction with God, whome he calls a field of Intention and our Source, with our beliefs, faith and actions. You might have seen the guy on PBS.I think it may be refreshing to include the book or video series since it's really not religion-specific, but is more about spirituality that exists for all in any religion, ostensibly. I, of course, am not quite as ecunemical as he is, but I do think the realities of people and the spiritual dimensions are the same, but that we all need the Saviour and cannot expect to do it all on our own.But it's a positive view on "religion" and theism that may work to further the discussion.

I only mentioned the Harris book because it is something I am currently interested in and it was related to what we were discussion before. If you have a different topic I am willing to consider it.If you do like the idea about discussing the Harris book what we could do is both read and discuss it and then after you could propose a book or essay in the opposing vein. Let me know if you want to do this verses an alternative topic and if so I will order to book when I get home.Your point about the disrespectful comment is warranted and I would like to appologize for phrasing it in that manner. Sometimes in this medium we tend to merge a persona with a person in a way that we would never do in a real life discussion around the dinner table.I maintain that your position and worldview are irrational and incorrect but you have at least demonstrated to me that characterizing YOU as having a glimmer of rationality is wrong.Please accept my appologies and perhaps we can make futher communication a model for how to blur the lines in the sand created by this medium and produce a civil and entertaining discussion.Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I didn't mean an alternative topic. I thought you wanted an alternative book along with Harris' book on the same thread.No problems on the characterization....just wanted to clarify something, for others as well.Let's do the topic as you suggest, but I will be travelling some for a few days starting tomorrow, and so we may have to talk more earnestly friday or something. Maybe I can look at the video this week, and the book over the weekend or something.

I can see any postings, btw, even when on the road, but I may not respond until back at home or the office since it's hard to type all this stuff on a blackberry.

I'll see about getting the topic started then.Just to make sure you know, the book itself isn't free online as far as I know. I'll be purchasing it myself either today or tomorrow. I am not sure if that point was clear or not.I would also be willing to mail it to you once I am done with it if you like assuming you would agree to return it.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)