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Author Topic:   Could Erratic Blocks give Flood Plausibility?
Percy
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Posts: 22389
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 16 of 20 (489160)
11-24-2008 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Peg
11-23-2008 10:33 PM


Re: Erratics
Peg writes:
marine life up high
marine life = water presence
I hope you're talking about marine fossils associated with erratics, which is on-topic, and not marine fossils on mountain tops, which isn't.
When erratics are dragged along landscape that was once sea bottom, then that sea bottom and any marine fossils contained therein will be gouged out of the landscape by the erratic and some of it dragged along. This kind of debris is almost always easily recognizable as glacial till, which is the material glaciers gouge out of the landscape and push along as they flow to sea level.
Huge piles of glacial till form moraines at the greatest extent of glaciers. A glacier is like a bulldozer pushing all before it while at the same time grinding everything smaller and smaller. The grinding effects of glaciers are easily recognizable, most obviously in the scratched striations along valley walls where glaciers once roamed.
The debris making up glacial till could not be co-located with erratics if it were of flood origin. It would take very energetic water to move a boulder of hundreds of tons, and when the water lost sufficient energy so that it could no longer move the boulder, it would still have many times sufficient energy to keep the till suspended. That the till and the boulder reside together indicates that they were deposited together, which could only happen with a glacier.
Floods leave one type of very distinctive evidence behind, glaciers another. All the evidence associated with erratics is glacial, and none of it is deluvial. So when you ask questions like, "Well, couldn't a flood have done this?" or "Couldn't have flood have done that?" depending upon the specifics the answer could well be, "Yes!" Then, as others have noted, you have to go on to say, "Okay, so it is possible, but there are other things that could have produced this, so what evidence should I seek that would allow me to identify the correct answer?"
Questions like this had already been asked and answered well over a century ago. I think I already mentioned that the paper you cited is over a century old. The conclusion then was that erratics are of glacial origin, and during the intervening century even more evidence has accumulated to the point where we are very confident in this conclusion. No one within science questions this today. The only questions come from those with views based on religion rather than science.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 10:33 PM Peg has replied

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 17 of 20 (489170)
11-24-2008 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
11-23-2008 7:39 AM


The following link presents some of the evidence used to conclude that what formed the unusual scablands terrain up in the American Northwest was a series of megafloods. You will notice that the geological evidence includes not only erratics, but erratics plus massive ripples, vertical scoured cliffs, shorelines, etc. All evidence of fast-moving water.
See: Exploring the Scablands
Those pieces of evidence are what lead geologists to conclude a series of megafloods carved the scablands as opposed to glacial processes, which result in vastly different geological formations.
See: Landforms of Glaciation
Therefore, while both megafloods and glaciation can leave erratics, the ultimate cause of those erratics is extrapolated entirely from the surrounding geology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 7:39 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 18 of 20 (489171)
11-24-2008 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by roxrkool
11-24-2008 1:22 PM


Scabland floods
Another critical point on the Channeled Scablands:
If we can see evidence from these floods at the end of the last ice age, why can't we see evidence of a far greater flood at a much more recent date?
By the way, I did a number of field trips to that area in grad school, and got to study some of the formations up close and personal. Extremely interesting!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 19 of 20 (489212)
11-25-2008 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by roxrkool
11-24-2008 1:22 PM


exploring the scablands
great link, thankyou

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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 20 of 20 (489213)
11-25-2008 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Percy
11-24-2008 9:15 AM


Re: Erratics
Percy writes:
I hope you're talking about marine fossils associated with erratics, which is on-topic, and not marine fossils on mountain tops, which isn't.
yes i was referring to marine fossils found on erratics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Percy, posted 11-24-2008 9:15 AM Percy has not replied

  
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