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Author | Topic: Creation account does not mention creation OF the planet. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Even if your premise of the Genesis story permitting an ancient universe, including the sun and Earth, the details of the completion of the job is still YECism. This is still massively contrary to the worldly evidence. So why does one way or the other make any difference?
By the way, Buzsaw has a somewhat similar Genesis interpretation. Note that that topic is a "Great Debate", with only Buzsaw and Minnemooseus permited to post. Moose Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
Whiskey writes: The sun, moon, stars, and planet Earth were all here for a long time before the 6 creative days. You must be partaking some of your namesake
Genesis writes:
4 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights”the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning”the fourth day.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
whiskey writes: So you agree with me? The Earth was created, then the 6 creative days happen sometime after. No. According to Genesis 1, the earth was created at the beginning of the first day. It says nothing about anything before the first day. Hint:
quote: It says "the first day", period. There were no days before that. Essentially, there was no time before that. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5910 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Ringo writes: Essentially, there was no time before that. No, time started at "The beginning", not at the first day. There can be time without a cycle of light and dark, can there not? 'Day', according to the bible, is light that is separated from the dark. Before day, there comes darkness. When does day start? With daylight. Thus, the beginning of the first day was when God created light. This occurred after the creation of the earth. Therefore, one could argue that the earth was created a long time before the first day, with a extended period of 'hovering' or 'brooding' over the waters (or whatever God was doing then). Contributors needed for the following articles: Pleiotropy, Metabolism, Promoter, Invertebrate, Meiosis, DNA, Transcription, Chromosome, Tetrapod, Fossil, Phenotype, Messenger RNA, Mammals, Appendix , Variation, Selection, Gene, Gametogenesis, Homo erectus and others. Registration not needed, but if desired, register here!
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Doddy writes: There can be time without a cycle of light and dark, can there not? You'll note that there was nothing to "mark" time until the fourth day:
quote: So "days" are not just light separated from dark - they are extrapolated back to the first day. The creation of light on the first day is irrelevant to the time-keeping. Time started "in the beginning", but there is nothing in the text to suggest that "the beginning" was anything other than the beginning of the first (extrapolated) day. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
Welcome Whiskey,
Glad you decided to add to our diversity. We have a wide variety of forums for your debating pleasure. As members, we are guests on this board and as guests we are asked to put forth our best behavior. Please read the Forum Guidelines carefully and understand the wishes of our host. Abide by the Forum Guidelines and you will be a welcome addition. One very simple rule to remember is to argue the position, not the person. Since threads are closed when they reach 300 posts, we ask that participants address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. In other words, don't waste posts on comments that aren't on topic and don't further the discussion. In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your journey here pleasant. Please direct any questions or comments you may have to the Moderation Thread. Again, welcome and fruitful debating. Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encyclopedia Brittanica, on debate Links for comments on moderation procedures and/or responding to admin msgs:
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2493 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
We have no idea how long the planet was here before God started his creative works on the planet. Sure we do. God didn't start "creating" until humans evolved language, culture, religeon and finally Judeo-Christian monotheism. So the planet was here for about 4.5 billion years before God got started.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3458 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I think I see what you are trying to argue, but the text doesn't really support what you're saying. Both creation stories start with the creation of the planet, they just don't give a lot of details.
Genesis 1 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 2 4 Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when ADONAI, God, made earth and heaven, So the account of creation doesn't start with the planet Earth already created, it starts with the creation of the planet Earth. Then the authors describe how God made the planet livable. I agree that the account doesn't specify how long it took to create the planet before separating the light, but the creation account does mention the creation of the planet. What makes you feel that these verses don't mention the creation of the planet? "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5910 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Ringo writes: So "days" are not just light separated from dark quote: God first separated the night from day, then created the lights to do it.
Ringo writes:
Actually, I think when it mentions that the morning and evening made the first day, and evening and morning weren't created until after the creation of the Earth, pretty clearly points to the Earth being made before the first day. Time started "in the beginning", but there is nothing in the text to suggest that "the beginning" was anything other than the beginning of the first (extrapolated) day. Edited by Doddy, : fixed quote Contributors needed for the following articles: Pleiotropy, Metabolism, Promoter, Invertebrate, Meiosis, DNA, Transcription, Chromosome, Tetrapod, Fossil, Phenotype, Messenger RNA, Mammals, Appendix , Variation, Selection, Gene, Gametogenesis, Homo erectus and others. Registration not needed, but if desired, register here!
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Jon Inactive Member |
May I point out that different versions of the Scriptures tell different stories? According to Young's Literal Translation, God was simply 'preparing' an Earth that was already there:
quote: So, according to this version of the text, it doesn't start with God creating the Earth. It just tells us that when God started preparing it”making it ready for life, etc.”that it had been there already in waste and void. Jon Edited by Jon, : Removed the [is] that had been edited in at Bible Gateway; In my opinion, it really shouldn't be there.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Doddy writes: God first separated the night from day, then created the lights to do it. Exactly. The lights weren't needed to determine the first three days, so why was the light/dark needed to determine the first day? The layout of the days is independent of anything that was created - sun, moon or light itself. The timescale was superimposed on the events after the fact.
... pretty clearly points to the Earth being made before the first day. I don't think it's "pretty clear" at all. I think it's barely plausible but not supported by the text. Feel free to point out where the text indicates the beginning of the first day, other than "the beginning". Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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whiskey Junior Member (Idle past 6174 days) Posts: 8 Joined: |
Lets be honest, Genesis 1:1 does not tell us when "the beginning" was. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth." Period, next thought. Your making a large assumption that its the beginning of the 1st creative day.
And light was not the determining factor for days, we're not talking about literal 24 hour days here. In the Bible, a day can represent different time durations. The Hebrew word yohm, translated “day,” can mean different lengths of time. Among the meanings possible, William Wilson’s Old Testament Word Studies includes the following: “A day; it is frequently put for time in general, or for a long time; a whole period under consideration ... Day is also put for a particular season or time when any extraordinary event happens.” This last sentence appears to fit the creative “days,” for certainly they were periods when extraordinary events were described as happening. It also allows for periods much longer than 24 hours. In Genesis 1:5 God himself is said to divide day into a smaller period of time, calling just the light portion “day.” In Genesis 2:4 all the creative periods are called one “day”: “This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day [all six creative periods] that God made earth and heaven.”
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
whiskey writes: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth." Period, next thought. Your making a large assumption that its the beginning of the 1st creative day. No. You're making a huge assumption that there's a period there. As I understand it, in the Hebrew there is no period there (or anywhere).
And light was not the determining factor for days.... That's what I said: The days that we understand now were superimposed as a timescale.
... we're not talking about literal 24 hour days here. Again, as I understand it, the Hebrew text does imply literal 24-hour days. We have other threads on that (sorry I don't have time to look them up right now). Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
The Genesis account of creation starts with planet Earth already created.
It all depends on how you want to interpret it. Why do you choose your interpretation? Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence. Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith. Science has failed our world. Science has failed our Mother Earth. -System of a Down, "Science" He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"
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whiskey Junior Member (Idle past 6174 days) Posts: 8 Joined: |
Well, the 1st verse looks like a simple statement of fact. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth. In the 1st verse, everything is done, heaven and Earth are created. During the 6 creative days, we're not given details about the creation of the planet, like how the core, mantel, or other aspects. Just creation ON the planet. My point in all of this is that I believe the Earth could be billions of years old. A lot of religious people believe the planet was created in 6, 24 hour, days or 6 thousand years. I'm not convinced that the dating methods available to man are very acurate, I even think they could be very inaccurate. But when a scientist says that the Earth is billions of years old, there is no biblical reason to contradict him.
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