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Author Topic:   Creation account does not mention creation OF the planet.
whiskey
Junior Member (Idle past 6174 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 05-02-2007


Message 1 of 34 (398810)
05-02-2007 6:47 PM


The Genesis account of creation starts with planet Earth already created. We have no idea how long the planet was here before God started his creative works on the planet. This is a very basic and very important foundation to work from. I'm a very firm beliver in the Bible, but all the "young Earth" arguments are being based on inaccurate assumptions.

Replies to this message:
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AdminNem
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Message 2 of 34 (398812)
05-02-2007 6:54 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 34 (398815)
05-02-2007 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by whiskey
05-02-2007 6:47 PM


Try reading the Bible.
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning”the first day.
One day.
Pretty clear unless you want to make stuff up.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Doddy
Member (Idle past 5910 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 4 of 34 (398820)
05-02-2007 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
05-02-2007 7:11 PM


Ah, but perhaps if we read extra-literrally, it doesn't tell you the time of the Earth's creation.
It says the earth was created "In the beginning". It doesn't tell you whether that beginning was on the first day or many millenia before. God may have been hovering for billions of years.
Then, when He is finally ready, God creates light and darkness and seperates them. That is the first day. The creation of the earth falls outside that day, but how far outside is not mentioned.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 34 (398823)
05-02-2007 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Doddy
05-02-2007 7:34 PM


If you use the procedure:
It is only an error if there is absolutely no conceivable manner in which the verses or passages can be reconciled.
... that was posted in another thread (see Message 47 you might be able to do that. After all if the only limitations are "anything conceivable" then just about anything will fly.
What it actually says though is:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning”the first day.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 6 of 34 (398827)
05-02-2007 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by whiskey
05-02-2007 6:47 PM


Hello, Whiskey, and welcome to EvC. Fun place!
The Genesis account of creation starts with planet Earth already created.
Off to a bad start, isn't it? The story waits 'till Day Four to get the stars and Sun created, no? Observation indicates otherwise - it looks like two generations of stars were formed, burnt their hydrogen, and exploded before there was enough carbon, silicon, and iron floating around in space to form a planet. The "inaccurate assumptions" aren't confined to young-earthers, but to Genesis literalists of any stripe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by whiskey, posted 05-02-2007 6:47 PM whiskey has replied

Replies to this message:
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whiskey
Junior Member (Idle past 6174 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 05-02-2007


Message 7 of 34 (398829)
05-02-2007 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coragyps
05-02-2007 8:24 PM


First, to the guy who told me to read the bible. Where in your quoted text of Genesis does it say that God created the Earth during the 6 creative days? It says that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth." Then it goes on to describe the creative 6 days. NOWHERE is the actual creation of the planet described.
Now to Coragyps. Some of what I just said applies to you too. The 6 creative days are ONLY of creation on the planet. The sun, moon, stars, and planet Earth were all here for a long time before the 6 creative days. You also need to understand how Genesis is written. Its written as if the writer were on the planet during the 6 creative days, a human point of view. So, it was on the 4th day that light from the stars could be seen, not when the stars were created.

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 8 of 34 (398831)
05-02-2007 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by whiskey
05-02-2007 8:35 PM


whiskey writes:
It says that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth." Then it goes on to describe the creative 6 days.
There's no "then" in there. The first day starts at verse 1 and ends at verse 5. The second day starts at verse 6 and ends at verse 8. And so on. There's simply no justification for splitting off part of the first day.
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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whiskey
Junior Member (Idle past 6174 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 05-02-2007


Message 9 of 34 (398832)
05-02-2007 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
05-02-2007 8:41 PM


Theres so much to address here :-) First, whats your definition of "heavens" mentioned in verse 1? Are you indicating that God created the entire universe in day 1 as well? The way it reads to me, and makes sense is that that first verse explains who created everything. Then Moses turns your attention to the creative works on the planet.

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 10 of 34 (398833)
05-02-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by whiskey
05-02-2007 8:51 PM


whiskey writes:
The way it reads to me, and makes sense is that that first verse explains who created everything.
No, that doesn't make sense.
Verse 2 says that the earth was "without form" and "void". It was created but not completed until the water was separated from the land and the living things were created.
Similarly, the heavens were created but not completed until the sun, moon and stars were created.
Again, there's simply no justification for splitting off verse 1 as some kind of "introduction".

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 34 (398834)
05-02-2007 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by whiskey
05-02-2007 8:35 PM


Sure, but only if you go by the "Make up any conceivable way around the problem theory of Bible Study".
NOWHERE is the actual creation of the planet described.
Nonsense.
Genesis 1:
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
The stories that were compiled to make the tales in Genesis 1 & 2 are valuable, but trying to make them relate to creation is to miss the whole point.
The point of the stories are the relationships they describe. Trying to come up with some make believe excuse for time lines or 7 days is a total waste of effort and is to move away from what Genesis 1 & 2 are trying to teach us.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 12 of 34 (398836)
05-02-2007 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by whiskey
05-02-2007 8:35 PM


You also need to understand how Genesis is written. Its written as if the writer were on the planet during the 6 creative days, a human point of view.
I need to understand? Your third post here, you don't know me from Millard Fillmore, and you're assuming that I've never read or thought about Genesis before? It looks to me like Gen 1:1 to 2:4 was written as a very nice bit of poetic creation myth, but from a 100% non-scientific viewpoint.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 13 of 34 (398841)
05-02-2007 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coragyps
05-02-2007 9:10 PM


Coragyps writes:
I need to understand?
He was responding to jar. Like every new member, he is still confused about which reply button to press.

Disclaimer:
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whiskey
Junior Member (Idle past 6174 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 05-02-2007


Message 14 of 34 (398866)
05-02-2007 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coragyps
05-02-2007 9:10 PM


I didn't realize that posting a lot of messages on an internet message board makes you an expert. And since I'm new to this board, I must not have any idea what I'm talking about, right?

This message is a reply to:
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whiskey
Junior Member (Idle past 6174 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 05-02-2007


Message 15 of 34 (398867)
05-02-2007 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ringo
05-02-2007 9:00 PM


"It was created but not completed until the water was separated from the land and the living things were created."
So you agree with me? The Earth was created, then the 6 creative days happen sometime after.

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Replies to this message:
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