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Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fresh Problem with the Ark | |||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I believe when someone asks Him into their heart that they will start to see things very differently. I did, immediately. The problem, I realized, was that I was seeing what I wanted to see, not what was.
Me try atheism? A baby can't crawl back in the womb! Ah, I see. Everyone else's beliefs are simply to be discarded at your request, but your own position is so sacrosanct that abandoning it can't even be countenanced. I tried it your way. Why won't you play fair and try it mine?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
oh dear. where to begin.
Also, I think you are saying he did not really believe in demons? an astute observation. the demon to which he is refering is ignorance and people who hoodwink other people into believing stuff that just isn't true. he's implying that science is to these people what the excorcist was to the devil.
Makes me wonder what "God" he thought he believed in. The God of the bible believed in demons. Which god was Sagan into? spinnoza's god. the god of naturalism, the laws of the universe. that's what deism is, it's not about god in the same sense you probably believe. and actually, the god of the bible CREATED demons.
So, refuse to accept what God has revealed? What then would Sagan's bible be? deism is not a religion in any sense of the word. deists do not usually believe the bible to be something god has revealed anymore than you may believe quran is. or the book of mormon. or the bhagavad-gita. although, i was tempted to put in a joke about his bible being sir isaac newton's "principia"
Just make it up as you go? If it feels good, believe it? There are no demons or angels? Great! Any satanist, or witch, or atheist, or insane person then can say nature is showing him "god", and, since all that He revealed does not count, you can go ahead, and spout off any old thing that finds it's way to your tounge? No way to check this philosophy! Forget the bible, doesn't fit that nonsense! Only Sagan's opinion I guess would matter? uh, last i checked, you were the one making up stuff. other events in the "flood year" of 190 days, like comets and smashing into the earth and whatnot? my bible sure doesn't say that. nor does my bible say anything god about being sneaky, and miraculously sorting all the fossils and strata to make it look like something happened that didn't. the main tenet of deism that god's revelation is existance. they don't even believe in god in the same sense you do. they believe in a more unified, fundamental force that has nothing to do with everyday life, but rather produces natural laws to govern them. how do your check you philosophy? on the bible? how do you check your bible? or, more importantly, do you? you can't just believe any old thing someone hands you says "god said this!" is actually the word of god. what about, say, the qabala, the quran, and the book of mormon? those are all the same god, even. they all say they're the word of god. how do you know which ones are right? are they all right? or just the old and new testaments? why both? why not the apocrypha? why not the books in the hebrew tanakh that don't appear in the english old testament? tell me, is there a test to determine what is and what is not god's revealed word?
Did this "God" of Sagan's have anything to do with the big bang? possibly. i don't know sagan's specific beliefs, and deism is a wide range of personal beliefs (no organization, so it varies from person to person). but sagan tended to be very anti-religious.
Did this "God" of Sagan's have anything to do with the big bang? the book's about ufo's and pseudoscience and stuff. i dunno how it got brought up. does it even talk about religion? This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 07-05-2004 04:37 AM
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Really? I believe when someone asks Him into their heart that they will start to see things very differently. It may take a while, (unless you are just pulling my leg)-like for a baby to grow, but it is a certainty. i've been a christian for about 8 years.
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:Relax. If what you say is true, God will help you sort it all out. Give it a few years. quote:Beliefs like say, atheism? Hey nothing personal, really, I can't crawl back into a woman's womb, not just because I am not willing, but because it is impossible.
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simple  Inactive Member |
Not something I would brag about if I disbelieved the bible. But to each his own.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Hey nothing personal, really, I can't crawl back into a woman's womb, not just because I am not willing, but because it is impossible. But it's possible for everyone but you to turn your back on their beliefs? It can't be impossible. After all, most atheists were once Christians. If it's "impossible", why do so many Christians do it?
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:Diobolically clever, I must admit. I guess then he would not really believe in the excorcist or the devil either? My question though remains, why would he go on to, as you yourself say, "hoodwink other people into believing stuff that just isn't true"? quote:(Spinoza, Benedict De | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy) "Spinoza is best known for his Ethics, a monumental work that presents an ethical vision unfolding out of a monistic metaphysics in which God and Nature are identified. God is no longer the transcendent creator of the universe " So our creator, then according to Sagan, and Spinoza's spin, is out. Gee, who could argue with that? quote:OK, so let's try and get this straight, are you now breaking with Sagan, and saying you personally believe in demons? quote:Well thank goodness you didn't yeild to temptation. quote:So now the bible, as well as demons are something you respect? quote:OK so this silly stuff (that "they" believe) has nothing to do with everyday life, fine. quote:So, I guess this gives him credibility? quote:Since you brought it up, I'll have to leave that for you to answer. I don't know, nor care what that virtual pagan thought! As far as religion goes, Jesus was killed by the religious types. So I hope you don't think I have a soft spot for some loveless ceremonialism!?
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CK Member (Idle past 4155 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
I grown up a christian but as I got older I got interested in science - the only way I could make science fit my beliefs was to take no notice of large elements of it, that seemed to be dishonest to me.
Maybe there is a god, maybe there is not - but the bible is clearly just a book of stories.
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simple  Inactive Member |
Making science fit your beliefs. Nice ring to it! I do ok at that.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Diobolically clever, I must admit. I guess then he would not really believe in the excorcist or the devil either? My question though remains, why would he go on to, as you yourself say, "hoodwink other people into believing stuff that just isn't true"? because that's the point of the book. it's about things not scientifically sound. seriously, it's a metaphor. really. (and uhh, the exorcist is based on a true story, whether or not you believe in the devil)
OK, so let's try and get this straight, are you now breaking with Sagan, and saying you personally believe in demons? it was a side note. you said the god of the bible believed in demons. that's a silly phrasing. the god of the bible created demons.
Well thank goodness you didn't yeild to temptation. you have no sense of humor, do you?
So now the bible, as well as demons are something you respect? who said i respected or even believed in demons?
OK so this silly stuff (that "they" believe) has nothing to do with everyday life, fine. most deists do not believe that a god in any form interferes with everyday life, no.
So, I guess this gives him credibility? no. contrary to popular belief, religious beliefs mean didly-squat as far as credibility goes. it's not my fault that a lot of so-called christians are liars and charlatans. carl sagan gets his credibility from his degrees, education, career, and publish works.
Since you brought it up, I'll have to leave that for you to answer. I don't know, nor care what that virtual pagan thought! actually, no, i didn't bring it up. and he wasn't a pagan.
As far as religion goes, Jesus was killed by the religious types. So I hope you don't think I have a soft spot for some loveless ceremonialism!? what on earth are you talking about? are we randomly playing the "pin the blame on the jesus-killers" game again? i have news for you, without someone doing it, there'd be no savior, now, would there? also, for the record, jesus was killed by the romans. This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 07-05-2004 06:35 AM
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Relax. If what you say is true, God will help you sort it all out. Give it a few years i suggest you give it a few years. actually, 4 years. in those four years, go to college. think about things a little. read some different opinions on readings and interpretations of the bible. i know you're so old and wise and god talks to you personally and tells you everything you'll ever need to know... but uhh, go learn some things.
Beliefs like say, atheism? Hey nothing personal, really, I can't crawl back into a woman's womb, not just because I am not willing, but because it is impossible. having been an militant athiest most of my life, this is the first bit i always tried to break down. athiest is NOT a belief -- it is a LACK of belief. and often times, athiests tend to be more intellectually, socially, philosophically, and even more religiously advanced than fundamental christians. i had a friend who was always mad because she thought i treated her like a child religiously. a year later, she was telling me how she was starting to look at all the other members of her church as children. but then, hey, out of the mouths of children, right?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Not something I would brag about if I disbelieved the bible. But to each his own. being a christian you mean? christian means follower of christ. i try to follow his teachings, and even go a step further, and believe in him! that makes me a christian. just because i don't agree with you that the bible is 100% the inerrant, inspired, and infallible word of god doesn't mean i'm a heathen and going to hell.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 761 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Well, why not try it anyhow, just in case there may be something to it?
This is my nomination for "most inane post of the new century." Arkathon, why don't you try belief in each and every one of the other 8,743 gods people have dreamed up 'just in case?' Don't forget the Invisible Pink Unicorn......
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
maonarch writes:
you can take this discussion to the {Ideas of Reality} topic. the only way I could make science fit my beliefs was to take no notice of large elements of it, that seemed to be dishonest to me.EvC Forum: Ideas of Reality
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
that you think you do shows a high degree of self delusion.
you too might like to take this to {Ideas of Reality} topic at EvC Forum: Ideas of Reality
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