Genetic problems with genesis, the great flood, etc

I don't get the grenade analogy at all, but taking God at His Word has gotten me a long ways. So it makes sense to keep trusting Him.

Ringo, I have defended and discussed these ideas and on physics threads. You are lying about that.But regardless, it is men like John Wheeler who claim an intrinsincly undefined state prior to observation. Considering he is a giant in the field of physics, I tend to think of your statements as mere ignorance in your handwaiving away his ideas.

Crash, ever read any guys like John Wheeler or Anton Zellinger?As usual, you think merely asserting something makes it true, such as claiming "disinformation" is not a word. Haven't heard you apologize for that slur in which you were shown to be wrong, but then again, no matter how often you are shown to be wrong, you insist otherwise, even on factual matters such as claiming falsely that disinformation is not a word.It's pathetic really.

RAZD, uh...do you even know what is being discussed on this thread? Your post has no relevance at all.It's like if we were discussing the past election, and you decide to make a very strong stand on what the best football program in the country is.what gives?

Hi Randman,Apologies in advance if I don't reply to this message for a while - I've been kinda busy lately. I just wanted to point out something about the idea that "the laws have changed" that seems to be at odds with other justifications of genesis, more specifically the Fall. I'm not too hot on the theology, so correct me if I'm wrong: If you've agreed so far you've got a problem. The 'laws' that govern why inbreeding is extremely dangerous for the survival of species are tied very closely to mutation. Here's an example, forgive me if it oversimplified:A species' genome has a particular gene (call it gene A) and an individual has a disadvantageous, mutated version of that gene (gene A_m). This mutation is recessive and so requires two copies to have an effect - the individual is normal and healthy because it also has an unmutated copy. The genotype of that individual is AA_m and when it breeds with another member of its species with a genotype AA there is no problem, all of the offspring are healthy: Possible genotypes (50% chance of each): AA, AA_mProblems occur when two AA_m individuals mate: Possible genotypes: AA (25%chance), AA_m(50%), A_mA_m (25%)You've already got 1/4 of the population unable to survive, and that's just with one gene. Factor in a small population size and more genes and you've got a pretty sickly, unviable population. ALL of the species on the Ark would have to contest with this fact. Or is God going to come up with some other magical get out clause?To put it another way: the 'laws' had changed at the time of the Fall, not the flood. You've still got to explain how to make these extremely tiny populations viable.This message has been edited by Ooook!, 13-11-2005 11:55 AM

This is the direct link back to the beginning of this discussion with you.You were the one who said "physical principles were changed"There is no evidence that physical principles have changed.Whether you are talking genetics or chemistry or physics or astronomy.Glad you agreed that you have no such evidence.Enjoy.

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In fact, randman, your posts are also way off topic.Can we stick to the questions raised in the OP. If you want to discuss your understanding of QM, then start a separate thread for that.

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Just to point out your general lack of reading comprehension, I said in Message 24:

quote:

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... I haven't seen him defend his views in the physics forum yet.

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Instead of calling me a liar, you could have said that I am mistaken. And instead of giving absolutely no backup for your claims - as usual - you could have given a link to where you discussed it. Until you do so, my statement stands.But my main point was that your Woo-Woo Time theory is useless. It's just an excuse to hand-wave the evidence away.

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People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Ok, then I'm sure you'll be able to show me, from his writings, where he asserts that that undefined state applies to the very laws of physics themselves.Otherwise we're pretty much just talking about you not understanding what your references are telling you.

This comment applies particularly to crashfrog and to randman.If you want to discuss QM or other aspects of physics, start a new topic. The current thread has to do with genetics and the implication of creationist assumptions.

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Crash, he doesn't claim the laws of physics are undefined. Follow the argument.Edit to add I didn't see the moderator comments above, and forgot about the OP. Sorry for getting off-topic.This message has been edited by randman, 11-13-2005 10:46 PM

There was clearly a change with the Fall, but the Bible also suggests there were changes later as well, not as large of course, but there are verses indicating God acted after the Fall to limit lifespans, for example.

book, chapter, verse?

You know the book, chapter and verse already in Genesis which refers to God limiting man's lifespan.Why do you ask then?

no i don't. remind me.

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