Intelligent Design and Parasites

A substantial percentage of life is parasitic. While some parasites form symbiotic relationship with their hosts, the majority are antagonistic and live off the host until the host dies or causes immeasurable pain, anguish and misery during the process.Some of these parasites have methods and life cycles that are nothing short of diabolic and horrific, if not creative.For example there is a crustacean that eats the tongues of certain fish and then claps down and forms a replacement tongue! Positioning itself to be first in line for dinner.Invasion of the Tongue Snatchers! • Damn InterestingAnother graphic example closer to home is the Guinea Worm. A quick look at the images of will turn your stomachHere is a creature that has a complex life cycle finely tuned to the host and has the "appearance" of design. These creatures are very specific to the task and are not some otherwise benign organism that took up a diabolic lifestyle after some alleged "fall". Of course there many more examples like the Guinea Worm such as Hookworm, Tapeworms, Trichinosis, Pinworms, Liver Flukes, Roundworms, Heart Worm, Blood Fluke, Intestinal Fluke, Lung Fluke, on-and-on. Many of these cause severe sickness and death and can make Swiss cheese out of your organs.If life is intelligently designed what does this parasitic nature of life say about the designer? Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

Hi iceage,Your question is very similar to the oft' asked 'why does God allow evil?' question. The threads usually result in a discussion of what 'evil' is.However, I would promote this, because I have been asked the same question a few times recently. I know there is more than one person here awaiting and interested in the topic.Do you think you can deal with the same old arguments you know will come up? Is it worth the time? If you say yes, I will go ahead, unless anyone else wants to do it right away. I am new at this. Edited by Adminastasia, : punctuation

Heavens no I don't want that.Simply, did the Intelligent Designer specifically design the Guinea Worm and the testes consuming Botfly, in addition to butterflies, hummingbirds and kittens?If someone wants be believe that liver flukes are not evil but all part of some loving plan then ok - I do not wish to debate that.Thanks for highlighting this.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Just to clarify things before we start: while the botfly may have testes, it transmits tsetse.

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Well written OP Iceage and I enjoyed reading it.But we know these are old arguments refurbished so to speak. Darwin specifically saw the reality of parasites as prima facie evidence for the non-existence of God. I once saw footage of a giant hawk swoop down and pluck a sloth from off of a tree branch and deliver the animal alive (but incapacitated) to its nest, presumably to be pecked to death by baby hawks. Since the Biblical God ordered Joshua and the children of Israel to kill every man, woman and child in the promise land for the sin of idol worship, and since the Adamic Fall cursed the Earth and caused disease to be introduced, parasites and cruelty correspond to the Biblical Deity and Satan and the events depicted therein. The whole point of the Gospel says that if any man turns to Christ by faith, He will deliver them from all curses.Ray Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

Are you saying that there was a second creation at the Adamic fall that created all these horrific parasites that have complex life cycles and morphology that are specifically adapted to their hosts?

The suffering of the hosts seems to us to be horrific because it is prolonged. If the death were instantaneous in all cases, we would see that inevitable death as merciful. But the short life spans of all living creatures are but an instant to god and so are all merciful. What we perceive as prolonged lives and in some cases prolonged suffering is but a mirage that will evaporate when we achieve the true eternal life that we are designed and destined for. In that eternal life, we shall all achieve perfection, including the ability to write sentences that we don't use a preposition to end with.

you heritic , the script of the most holy word always ends with a preposition..

Said designer is not intelligent, is indifferent, hostile or grossly punitive. Evolutionists say the former, deists option 2, gnostics number 3 and non gnostic christians the latter.

I don't get what you are sayingDid God design the parasites in question or not?
If he did when did he do that in relation to the fall?
If God did not design the parasites in question then who did?

I expressed myself badly by not explicating fully.I am saying what the Bible says about evil or in this case the specific evil of the parasites listed in your OP. Again, it should be understood that this is the Biblical explanation.The Fall caused God to curse:1. Mankind2. the Earth3. NatureLike it or not or believe it or not the Bible says the disobedience of Adam & Eve CAUSED it all. This means evil, in any expression, whether disease, tornado, murder-genocide, famine, etc.etc. is a result of the curse and being born separated from God (outside of Eden). All humans are born with Adamic sin and the capacity to do unspeakable things when we abuse our freedom to do otherwise. In addition, the Fall gave temporary custody of the Earth to Satan, he is allowed by God to exploit the curses and multiply them. There is no "second creation" after the Fall; there is just the curses as explained and their continual unfolding in diversity.However, the complete Biblical revelation, as unfolded in the New Testament, says IF ANY person comes into compliance with the gospel (= way of faith, not works) then God will deliver you from all curses, including the curse of our sins. This does not mean the believer is exempt from these curses, it means the believer has Divine relief promised if they meet the conditions of the gospel.The Bible says rain (= evil in this metaphor) falls on the just and unjust alike. God will not exempt anyone from rain, but the believer has the security of deliverance IF the way of faith, to relate to God, is pursued.Many persons reject that evil can come from God. They have no source for this subjective belief since the Biblical God reveals Himself to punish and test with evil and control evil. In my opinion, the parasitic evil in the OP, that is, the ones affecting human beings, is from the mind and power of Satan.BTW, are you familiar with the Ebola virus? It is evil incarnate.Ray

I'd like to remind people that we are talking about intelligent design and not creationism, young or old earth.For people that support ID, you are hurting your cause by introducing biblical "evidence".

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I still don't get itDid God design the parasites in question or not?
If he did when did he do that in relation to the fall?
If God did not design the parasites in question then who did?

Yes yes Adam CAUSED all the evil but he did not create parasites - I know the apologetic standard line.ID posits that nature was actively designed.So the question is - did God specifically design these parasites?As stated earlier these creatures have very complex life cycles, sometimes involving more than one host, and very specific body forms very well adapted (or designed if you will) to the host. These are not creatures that had some benign life style, such as slurping algae and then suddenly "turned evil" at the fall. A fine and honest assessment - if one takes on the view that the God is as described in the Bible then there really is not much leeway. I have spent considerable energy and time arguing this point with other Christians who are unwilling to accept that the caricature of God in the Bible actually ordered genocide, slavery and the taking of young virgin girls as booty.However as a personal disclosure, for myself it would take considerable physical evidence before I would willing and publicly ascribe such actions to God and believe that these actions actually describe the nature of God, the creator of all. If not true such views would be blasphemy. Whoaa! This is significant. This would mean that there are multiple active designers in nature. Interesting hypothesis. Does this mean that we should looking for ways to classify which are created and designed by God and those by Satan?These parasites have the appearance of remarkable good functionally designs. If this is true that Satan has creative design capability, I would say Satan is as good at design as God!Edited by iceage, : No reason given.