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Author Topic:   God and the blind Tailors
RevCrossHugger
Member (Idle past 5352 days)
Posts: 108
From: Eliz. TN USA
Joined: 06-28-2009


Message 46 of 135 (513606)
06-30-2009 9:24 AM


NosyNed writes:
Hi Rev,
Why don't you just deal with the assertions that Brian is making rather than wonder about why he makes them? Is he right or not.
Those of us much less knowledgeable than you or Brian like to watch the back and forth. He's lobed one over the net; let's see you whack it.
Well I think everyone is fairly equal in intelligence and life experience is more important than schooling. I am sorry my entertainment value is lacking my friend, I suppose that I like to know who I am speaking with, and being new to this forum I know no one! Thanks for the vote of confidence and I will attempt to do more answering and less questioning. We are really in the foreplay aspect of debate now. What is it exactly that Brian has lobbed that I should reply to ? The question of if a historical Jesus existed?
Thanks for your comments.
; }>
Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.
Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

  
RevCrossHugger
Member (Idle past 5352 days)
Posts: 108
From: Eliz. TN USA
Joined: 06-28-2009


Message 47 of 135 (513608)
06-30-2009 9:28 AM


Brian, thanks for providing your particulars! You are indeed fully qualified to critique my fantastic claims.
Ah ~
Its time for work, good thing I am sitting in my work chair. I will reply ASAP my friend. Sorry for my abrasive nature and temper, its one reason that I don't teach or preach as a full time job
: {>

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 48 of 135 (513612)
06-30-2009 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by RevCrossHugger
06-30-2009 6:37 AM


Re: coming of age
quote:
purpledawn writes:
It also includes the surrounding physical environment besides political environment. That's why I feel a religion is made to fit the region, not so much a creator of everything.
Well I agree with your first sentence. I have to disagree with the second. Maybe I should say that it depends if one is a believer. That the religion describes or is made to fit the religion that doesn’t make too much sense. Christianity is made to fit Christianity? Its not an impossibility but I feel its not too probable. A religion describes the wishes and the attributes of the deity. Of course if you are an atheist/etc observer ”looking in’ I think your assessment would be more valid.
It helps if you read what I wrote. Region, not religion. It wasn't a typo.
quote:
purpledawn writes:
When religions began, people only knew of their own environment.
Again I feel your statement sounds better if one is an atheist or non believer. In prehistory, when religions began* I feel like my idea of one God was valid. Early man were worshiping the creator even if they thought they were worshiping say a fertility deity.
It reads the same whether one has religion or one is religion free. What supports your idea of one god in the early history of man. From what I've read, many ancient religions were pantheists.
Ancient Religion and Astronomy
Since the beginning of his existence, man has always been fascinated by the skies and the behavior of the celestial bodies that inhabit them. He has used his observations of their movements to shape his beliefs in his gods, whose stability and everlasting power were manifested in the stars and planets. ...
The personified celestial bodies constituted the greater part of the pantheon of gods that many of these ancient civilizations worshipped. As natural phenomena began to be associated with the behaviour of the Sun, Moon, and several other planets and constellations, they began to be deified and attributed great powers in many cultures, such as those of Egypt, Babylon, Britain, and Mesoamerica. In attributing the gods to the tangible, the people could establish a dialogue with their gods, use their observable behaviour to validate their actions, and receive their guidance through omens.
You seem to be saying there is only one supreme being in existence and that ancients, even though they were worshiping gods with different attributes, were really only worshiping one god. They just didn't know it.
Of course the other side of that is that there are many supreme beings and those who only worship one with many attributes are really worshiping the many gods under one name and just don't know it.
quote:
purpledawn writes:
For the most part, those raised with a specific religion will feel that religion fits their needs better than another when they decide to embrace a religion because of all the things you listed above.
Or parents being parents would indoctrinate the children into their religion, perhaps brain washing and inserting the punch list that Bailey (and yourself) provided. Thanks for your reply.
That's what I said. Rephrasing doesn't make it different.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 6:37 AM RevCrossHugger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 1:26 PM purpledawn has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 49 of 135 (513613)
06-30-2009 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by RevCrossHugger
06-30-2009 9:16 AM


Re: Not another drone?
Not many scholars still doubt that the historical Jesus existed. I am sure you could find hold outs that believe otherwise but they are in the same category as those that think we really didn’t go to the moon.
I disagree wholeheartedly here. The scholars that tend to study Jesus are christian apologists. Scholars looking at the question with out the view of dogmatism come to a wholly different conclusion. Even christian apologists have to admit that there is ZERO extra biblical, contemporary evidence for Jesus Christ. Even the writings of Paul do not mention a physical Jesus that actually lived. His writings are of a spiritual Jesus. Maybe you can be the first and present some real evidence for the existence of this guy. I have been looking for years. All I come up with is nothing.
hold outs
I do not think it means what you think it means. (reference to The Princess Bride)
Hold outs are people who do not acknowledge the new scholarship. The hold outs are those who toe and proclaim the old tired, discredited, apologist line about the historicity of Jesus.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 9:16 AM RevCrossHugger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 1:45 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 50 of 135 (513628)
06-30-2009 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by RevCrossHugger
06-30-2009 9:16 AM


Re: Not another drone?
Not many scholars still doubt that the historical Jesus existed. I am sure you could find hold outs that believe otherwise but they are in the same category as those that think we really didn’t go to the moon.
Personally, I couldn’t care less one way or the other if Jesus existed or not, but what I do find astonishing is the utter lack of contemporary evidence to support a historical Jesus.
I found your last thought a bit amusing. If you think that Jesus was a failure one or two thousands of millions of saved people (Christians) would disagree.
But Jesus did NOTHING that was expected of the Messiah. The Messiah was to set Israel free from her enemies, Jesus did not do this, in fact Israel was even more persecuted after Jesus was said to have died.
What exactly has Jesus ‘saved’ people from, and how is this related to the Jewish messiah?
Jesus changed the world, thank God.
Well, I’m not convinced if Jesus did change the world or was it BELIEF in Jesus that changed the world?
Would it not be more accurate to declare that Paul changed the world?
I had to do that to get out of seminary, at least I have a paper that tells everyone that is the case. Maybe you should write the Dean at Milligan and tell him I am masquerading as a graduate of his school? Of course that would be slander.
As I said though, graduating from a Christian institution only requires that you regurgitate the party line, would you still have graduated if you had pointed out the errors in Christian thought? For example, how would your lecturers have taken to you pointing out that Isaiah 7:14 obviously had to be fulfilled a very short time after the prophecy was made or the point of the prophecy would be lost?
Well you can always go back to school.
I’m still in school!
Well I am sorry if I don’t agree with your interpretation.
It’s not really my interpretation, it’s the only conclusion that one can arrive at if the text is read in context. The prophecy was made to King Ahaz to inform him that an alliance against him will fail, the young girl’s conception and birth of her child is the sign that this prophecy is true, so how can Jesus’ ‘birth’ 700 years later be a sign to Ahaz?
Why should I, a Christian give credence to a Jewish interpretation?
Why should anyone give credence to a Christian interpretation of Jewish scripture?
Perhaps the best way to approach this is to try and take an objective approach, critically analyse it without the religious spectacles on and it is obviously not about a child 700 years in the future.
Of course there again that is your opinion. War is hell brother. If the Palestinian terrorists wouldn’t use the innocents as human shields there would be less collateral damage. I am sure you know one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. That goes for nation states and governments as well. Think of a Hamas-led Palestinian government.
If only Britain had taken this approach the war against the IRA would have been finished in days!
Civilised people do not slaughter a thousand innocent people in order to kill one terrorist, no other nation in the world would get away with the war crimes that Israel has got away with.
Tell me seer how do I think?
I don’t think anyone needs a special gift to realise that Christians believe that ‘Immanuel’ means that God is with us in person, however that is not what 7:14 is saying.
Finally, when was Jesus ever called Immanuel?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 9:16 AM RevCrossHugger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Bailey, posted 07-03-2009 10:21 AM Brian has not replied

  
RevCrossHugger
Member (Idle past 5352 days)
Posts: 108
From: Eliz. TN USA
Joined: 06-28-2009


Message 51 of 135 (513633)
06-30-2009 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by purpledawn
06-30-2009 9:43 AM


Re: coming of age
purpledawn writes:
It helps if you read what I wrote. Region, not religion. It wasn't a typo.
Hmm’ I had misplaced my reading glasses. No wonder it made no sense! Ok,the religion is made to fit the region? How do you come to that conclusion?
purpledawn writes:
You seem to be saying there is only one supreme being in existence and that ancients, even though they were worshiping gods with different attributes, were really only worshiping one god. They just didn't know it.
Yes, exactly.
Of course the other side of that is that there are many supreme beings and those who only worship one with many attributes are really worshiping the many gods under one name and just don't know it.
Ha, yes I suppose so. Could be but I will pervert Mr octman's principle and say that one God is simple while many simply complicates the matter. I am a monotheist and a Christian (on and the same most would agree).
purpledawn writes:
That's what I said. Rephrasing doesn't make it different.
With all due respect you didn’t say that specifically, Wait! I better add this so as not to be accused of not reading a post; In Brian’s list he did mention family, if he meant nurture well, I stand corrected.Or maybe I have missed something completely if so please enlighten me?
Jeesh its getting flammable in here~
I didn’t think I would meet with so much resistance when I posted the thread, even more of a surprise was the antagonism present, even if its mild, nevertheless thanks for all the replies and statements etc.
.
; {>
Are there any traditional Christians in here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by purpledawn, posted 06-30-2009 9:43 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by purpledawn, posted 06-30-2009 5:09 PM RevCrossHugger has not replied

  
RevCrossHugger
Member (Idle past 5352 days)
Posts: 108
From: Eliz. TN USA
Joined: 06-28-2009


Message 52 of 135 (513638)
06-30-2009 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Theodoric
06-30-2009 9:45 AM


Re: Not another drone?
Theodoric writes:
I disagree wholeheartedly here. The scholars that tend to study Jesus are christian apologists. Scholars looking at the question with out the view of dogmatism come to a wholly different conclusion. Even christian apologists have to admit that there is ZERO extra biblical, contemporary evidence for Jesus Christ. Even the writings of Paul do not mention a physical Jesus that actually lived. His writings are of a spiritual Jesus. Maybe you can be the first and present some real evidence for the existence of this guy. I have been looking for years. All I come up with is nothing.
I will attempt to! The list below is not complete, as I have left out a few sources such as Josephus (even there is no good reason to really). Some atheists and those that would harm Christianity have attempted to discredit Josephus because, well, they want to harm and discredit Christianity! In any case these are extra biblical secular sources. If the small size is painful I will re-size it on request.
Suetonius - Suetonius was chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian (who reigned from A.D. 117-138). He confirms the report of Acts 18:2 that Claudius commanded all Jews (among them Priscilla and Aquila) to leave Rome in A.D. 49.
"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome," (Suetonius, Life of Claudius, 25.4).
Tacitus - The first-century Roman, Tacitus, is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world. He gives the account of the great fire of Rome, for which some blamed the Emperor Nero:
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius [Caesar] at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, [see Matt. 27:2, Luke 3:1, Luke 23:23-25] and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular." (Tacitus, Annals, 15.44).
[This guy and the others following obviously didn't care for the Christians but gave historical credibility at least to the existence of key biblical figures and events particularly of the crucifixion of Christ.]
Lucian - was a second-century Greek writer who was a harsh critic of Christianity. "The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property. (Lucian of Samosata, "Death of Pelegrine" ,11-13)
# Thallus — Thallus wrote around A.D. 52. None of his works is extant, though a few fragmented citations are preserved by other writers. One such writer is Julius Africanus who in about A.D. 221 quotes Thallus in a discussion about the darkness that followed the crucifixion of Christ:
"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun." (Julius Africanus, Chronography,)
Matthew 27:51 makes a reference to rocks being split and Luke 23:44-46 refers to the darkness that came over the land as Jesus died.
Africanus' reason for disagreeing with Thallus is that a solar eclipse cannot take place at the time of a full moon [a known scientific fact], and the account reports that "it was at the season of the paschal full moon that Jesus died."
# Talmud (Jewish Writings) — Sanhedrin 43a: "On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery [miracles?] and enticed Israel to apostasy.
[Even a Jewish document opposed to Christ admits that he exercised some supernatural power].
# Mara Bar-Serapion - A Syrian, Mara Bar-Serapion wrote to his son Serapion sometime between the late first and early third centuries. The letter contains an apparent reference to Jesus: "What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samon gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in dispersion [The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans took place in AD 70].
But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given. (British Museum, Syriac ms, add. 14, 658; cited on Habermas, "The Historical Jesus", 200)
:{>
Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2009 9:45 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2009 3:57 PM RevCrossHugger has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 53 of 135 (513647)
06-30-2009 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by RevCrossHugger
06-30-2009 1:45 PM


Re: Not another drone?
First of all if you are going too cut and paste please cite your source.
All of these have been debunked in the past on this forum
See here
I asked for contemporary, extra biblical sources. You provided none that fit that criteria. Therefore I won't bother to explain why these are not credible, but will just show how they do not fit the criteris.
Suetonius - He wrote this c. 120 CE. It is about a a disturbance in Rome in 49 CE. Wasn't this Jesus guy already nailed up by then? Therefore this is not a contemporary account. Or do you consider someone writing about World War I now, would be writing a comtemporary account?
Tacitus - c. 112 CE. Again not contemporary. He was writing about christians not Jesus Christ. He does not mention or quote any sources about the historicity of jesus.
Lucian - in your own cut and paste you mention he is a "second-century Greek writer". c. 170 CE. Fail. Not contemporary. Again he offers nothing for proof that Jesus existed.
Thallus - Never mentions anything about Jesus. Later writes (200CE and afterward) attempt to make his writing fit the Jesus myth, but there is no evidence here. If you can make a valid argument go for it, but as of yet there is no there, there.
Talmud - 300 CE or later. Why didn't you mention the stories of Jesus that don't mach your mythology and legends. One version in the Talmud puts his birth 100 years earlier than your bible. This verse you state is obviously not your Jesus. As a matter of fact the dating is centuries off. I though apologist had dropped this argument from their playbook years ago.
Source
A sorcerer who had been stoned in Lod on the eve of one Passover sometime around the 2nd century BCE. (Sanhedrin 43a)
Mara Bar-Serapion - Source
quote:
Mara Bar-Serapion, a Syriac writer, is by some believed to be the provider of one of the earliest non-Jewish, non-Christian references to Jesus. His letter, first edited in the nineteenth century by William Cureton, has been dated to sometime after 73 A.D., some 40 years after the crucifixion of Jesus.[1] It could though have been written as late as in the third century.[2] Writing to encourage his son to pursue wisdom, he uses examples of Socrates, Pythagoras and a "wise King" who was executed by the Jews.
Not contemporary and there is no mention of Jesus.
Care to try again. Remember, I am looking for contemporary, extra biblical evidence, not apologetics.
Contemporary
existing, occurring, or living at the same time; belonging to the same time

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 1:45 PM RevCrossHugger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Brian, posted 06-30-2009 4:47 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 54 of 135 (513654)
06-30-2009 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Theodoric
06-30-2009 3:57 PM


Re: Not another drone?
Hi Theo,
Tacitus - c. 112 CE. Again not contemporary. He was writing about christians not Jesus Christ. He does not mention or quote any sources about the historicity of jesus.
Isn't there a distinct possibility that Tacitus' has also been tampered with a la Josephus?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2009 3:57 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2009 5:12 PM Brian has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 55 of 135 (513655)
06-30-2009 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by RevCrossHugger
06-30-2009 1:26 PM


Religion for the Region
quote:
Hmm’ I had misplaced my reading glasses. No wonder it made no sense! Ok,the religion is made to fit the region? How do you come to that conclusion?
I gave my reasoning in Message 10 and Message 23.
quote:
purpledawn writes:
You seem to be saying there is only one supreme being in existence and that ancients, even though they were worshiping gods with different attributes, were really only worshiping one god. They just didn't know it.
Yes, exactly.
purpledawn writes:
Of course the other side of that is that there are many supreme beings and those who only worship one with many attributes are really worshiping the many gods under one name and just don't know it.
Ha, yes I suppose so. Could be but I will pervert Mr octman's principle and say that one God is simple while many simply complicates the matter. I am a monotheist and a Christian (on and the same most would agree).
Actually, no god is the simplest, but irrelevant. The point is you don't actually know how many gods there are. You accept what your religion has decreed, just as others accept what their religion has decreed and others are religion free.
You have nothing to show that there is without a doubt only one god and not many gods. You could just be lumping them all together.
quote:
With all due respect you didn’t say that specifically, Wait! I better add this so as not to be accused of not reading a post; In Brian’s list he did mention family, if he meant nurture well, I stand corrected.Or maybe I have missed something completely if so please enlighten me?
What you missed was to make a point.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 1:26 PM RevCrossHugger has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 56 of 135 (513656)
06-30-2009 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Brian
06-30-2009 4:47 PM


Re: Not another drone?
There is a very good chance it is an interpolation a la Josephus. It has a lot of the same issues the Josephus passages have.
There are a number of reviews of the passage that make a strong argument that is an interpolation.
Source
quote:
Ultraviolet photo of a critical word from the earliest known extant manuscript of Tacitus (second Medicean, Laurentian library, Italy).
The photograph reveals that the word purportedly used by Tacitus in Annals 15.44, chrestianos ("the good"), has been overwritten as christianos ("the Christians") by a later hand, a deceit which explains the excessive space between the letters and the exaggerated "dot" (dash) above the new "i". The entire "torched Christians" passage of Tacitus is not only fake, it has been repeatedly "worked over" by fraudsters to improve its value as evidence for the Jesus myth.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Brian, posted 06-30-2009 4:47 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Brian, posted 07-01-2009 2:56 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4370 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 57 of 135 (513662)
06-30-2009 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by RevCrossHugger
06-30-2009 6:51 AM


mexican backhoes
I love ya rch, but ...
You are killin' me.
[lol - bold added for empahsis]
After reading over the majority of this thread again, I have come to the conclusion that your memory hasn't served you well as of late.
That, or perhaps you actually are an arrogant prick. I'm rooting for memory loss nonetheless. Chances are, I can carry your prickly burdens ...
rch writes:
Disclaimer; I think it was Bailey who pointed out that I am very arrogant etc.
That said, I will take a couple of moments to refresh things for you and others.
Within Message 1 of your op, while describing the perceptions of superiority that you harbor towards your religion, you boldly stated ...
quote:
Well of course being a Christian I feel that my students suit fit’s the very best! The cut and style is nearly perfect.
So you see even though the other religions do not describe God more closely they are not as right as my religion is.
[bold added for empahsis]
So, about three hours later, onifre cordially responded to you and initiated some friendly dialogue towards the metaphor you presented within your op.
Additionally, he asked you if you would care to to provide evidence for further assertions that were made within.
Finally, oni made one last statement in response to the following, and final, comment located within your premise ...
quote:
I hope this makes some sense, although it won’t solve many problems perhaps it will shed some light on my beliefs.
[bold added for empahsis]
Now, while also considering the former comments you made regarding perceptions of 'christian' superiority, oni matter of factly stated in Message 3 ...
quote:
I beleive this sheds light into the arrogance of belief and faith.
[bold added for empahsis]
Within this statement are to be found no personal implications, malicious or otherwise, with the exception being, of course, in one's imagination.
The arrogance that onifre refers to in this particular instance is in relation to the nouns 'belief and faith' and the implications that they encompass.
However, the arrogance clearly does not reference an individual directly. Continuing on, later in this thread, within Message 13 you stated ...
quote:
I did intend to say that no religion was 100% correct. We are only right by degrees. Uncertainty makes sure of that.
[bold added for empahsis]
Finally, at which point, in Message 21, I politely disagreed and suggested a distinct and separate mechanism at work other than uncertainty ...
quote:
I would have to second oni in Message 3 and suggest that arrogance makes sure of that.
[bold added for empahsis]
Again, in no way was this personally directed at an individual, but rather towards the concept of a specific mechanism. Big difference.
A group of people can be uncertain about things together without being arrogant sir. However, it takes only a lil' leaven to leaven the loaf.
So, in the end of the matter, it seems as there are no personal implications to be found within this statement either, considering, as it is, the arrogance discussed within this latter statement is simply in support of an initial perception of arrogance found within the former statement, both of which are directed towards, what should be percieved as, the arrogance that is required to establish various exclusive claims regarding concepts of a subjective nature; things such as, in this particular instance, faith and belief systems. Man 'o man, it sho' 'nuf seems like you gotta guilty conscience - lol
Keep diggin' holes and we'll fill 'em in for ya, after all, one needn't be educated to run a mexican backhoe.
One Love
Edited by Bailey, : sp.

I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.
Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by RevCrossHugger, posted 06-30-2009 6:51 AM RevCrossHugger has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 58 of 135 (513681)
07-01-2009 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Theodoric
06-30-2009 5:12 PM


Thanks Theo
Hi Theo,
Thanks for taking the time to post that link, what an excellent site as well, I ended up spending a few hours there!
I thought there was something up with the Tacitus reference but I didn't realise that some mss were as blatanly tampered with.
What a sham Christianity is. Invented by liars, kept going by liars, and followed by liars and the psychologically unsound, why on Earth I once believed in this BS I will never know, I suppose I should just be grateful that I woke up before wasting away my entire life on this garbage.

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 Message 56 by Theodoric, posted 06-30-2009 5:12 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Rahvin, posted 07-01-2009 3:34 AM Brian has not replied
 Message 60 by bluescat48, posted 07-01-2009 4:49 AM Brian has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 59 of 135 (513684)
07-01-2009 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Brian
07-01-2009 2:56 AM


Re: Thanks Theo
What a sham Christianity is. Invented by liars, kept going by liars, and followed by liars and the psychologically unsound, why on Earth I once believed in this BS I will never know, I suppose I should just be grateful that I woke up before wasting away my entire life on this garbage.
Amen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Brian, posted 07-01-2009 2:56 AM Brian has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 60 of 135 (513688)
07-01-2009 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Brian
07-01-2009 2:56 AM


Re: Thanks Theo
why on Earth I once believed in this BS I will never know
Probably the same reason I used to believe it, forced indoctrination from toddlerhood.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Brian, posted 07-01-2009 2:56 AM Brian has not replied

  
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