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Author Topic:   War on Christmas
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 166 of 245 (504136)
03-24-2009 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 7:33 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Many times in the Scriptures we see where God sends evil and makes evil things happen. He created it and is in control of it. This is one of the many reasons we are instructed to fear God. His wrath is not something we color in Sunday school. We also see where the Scripture talks of the elect of God and the reprobate. So Yes I believe God creates some men to suffer eternally to make his wrath manifest and bring his Elect in to submission.
I'll say then, that if your deity does exist, I want nothing to do with him. Such a monster is not due any form of worship, and deserves only scorn and disgust. I call into question the moral character of any person who would actually worship a being that would do such a thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 7:33 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:07 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Separatist Puritan
Junior Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 24
From: Austin, TX, USA
Joined: 03-24-2009


Message 167 of 245 (504138)
03-24-2009 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by shalamabobbi
03-24-2009 7:47 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
shalamabobbi writes:
Once he has them in submission what does he do with them? Send them forth to defend Christmas?
No.
Edited by Separatist Puritan, : spacing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by shalamabobbi, posted 03-24-2009 7:47 PM shalamabobbi has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 168 of 245 (504140)
03-24-2009 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 7:45 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Yes, but if you are chosen (Elect) by Christ, you will eventually come back to him.. Like the shepherd will bring his sheep back to the flock when they stray off. But a Sheep can not just decide to become a goat by it's own free will. This is why we are not to judge people .. some might be sheep running away from the flock at the time.
So if it will happen it will happen and if it won't it won't.
No need to worry about it then. Either let it happen or not as the case may be.
If you ever decided to follow him, it would be because God has given you that desire , it would be irresistible like something you felt like you had to do.
So if it will happen it will happen and if it won't it won't.
No need to worry about it then. Either let it happen or not as the case may be.
Straggler writes:
Are those (some here) that have declared that they wish to "save me" by convincing me of God wasting their time? Is it just a case of "If you will you will. If you won't you won't". God has already decided so just get on with your life and don't worry about it. Is that what you are saying.
Straggler writes:
Yours is not an evangelistic religion?
(Added by edit to previous post)
SP writes:
We are commanded to preach the gospel to every one, but we have no power at all of our selves to "save" any one. In fact that is a very dangerous train of thought. No one can make some one elect. only God can make people aware of their election.
That seems a little contradictory.
Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching.
So why preach?
Why not just spend the wasted time preaching drinking ale and smoking cigars instead?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 7:45 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:20 PM Straggler has replied

  
Separatist Puritan
Junior Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 24
From: Austin, TX, USA
Joined: 03-24-2009


Message 169 of 245 (504144)
03-24-2009 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Rahvin
03-24-2009 7:47 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Rahvin writes:
I'll say then, that if your deity does exist, I want nothing to do with him. Such a monster is not due any form of worship, and deserves only scorn and disgust. I call into question the moral character of any person who would actually worship a being that would do such a thing.
You know, I wans't sure how to respond to this.. Here is a delightful article you might enjoy...
http://graceandtruth.net/index.php?option=com_content&tas...
Evil is not a metaphysical substance. If we leave natural evil to the side ("calamities of nature") and talk about evil acted out by human beings, evil is an act of the will directed against God's law. Since God ordains all things, then it seems to follow that God "created" evil in the sense that he ordained sin.
Edited by Separatist Puritan, : added some more

-Separatist Puritan-
"If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Rahvin, posted 03-24-2009 7:47 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by shalamabobbi, posted 03-24-2009 8:20 PM Separatist Puritan has not replied
 Message 178 by Rahvin, posted 03-24-2009 11:38 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

  
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 170 of 245 (504148)
03-24-2009 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 8:07 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Separatist Puritan writes:
Here is a nice article you might enjoy...
I enjoyed it, but then I enjoyed Hostel I and II..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:07 PM Separatist Puritan has not replied

  
Separatist Puritan
Junior Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 24
From: Austin, TX, USA
Joined: 03-24-2009


Message 171 of 245 (504149)
03-24-2009 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Straggler
03-24-2009 8:01 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching. So why preach?
Isn't that a great question.. I thought the same. The only answer I can give right now (cause I am about to eat supper)is that the holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament command us to preach the Word. It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect.
Why not just spend the wasted time preaching drinking ale and smoking cigars instead?
LOL... indeed I do more than I should.

-Separatist Puritan-
"If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Straggler, posted 03-24-2009 8:01 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Straggler, posted 03-24-2009 8:33 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 172 of 245 (504153)
03-24-2009 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 8:20 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Straggler writes:
Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching. So why preach?
Isn't that a great question.. I thought the same. The only answer I can give right now (cause I am about to eat supper)is that the holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament command us to preach the Word. It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect.
Well I am glad that you enjoyed the question. And that you have asked it yourself.
But the answer "It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect" is completely incomprehensible to me.
What does that actually mean?
Why preach? Because Jesus says so despite it being pontless? Because it is a test of faith? But your faith is not of your own choosing anyway.......
I am bewildred as to the point of you preaching. Can you explain further?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:20 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:48 PM Straggler has replied

  
Separatist Puritan
Junior Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 24
From: Austin, TX, USA
Joined: 03-24-2009


Message 173 of 245 (504158)
03-24-2009 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Straggler
03-24-2009 8:33 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Why preach? Because Jesus says so despite it being pontless? Because it is a test of faith? But your faith is not of your own choosing anyway.......
I am bewildred as to the point of you preaching. Can you explain further?
The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the Word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation. (Westminster Larger Catechism Q.155)

-Separatist Puritan-
"If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Straggler, posted 03-24-2009 8:33 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Straggler, posted 03-24-2009 8:55 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 174 of 245 (504160)
03-24-2009 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 8:48 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the Word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation. (Westminster Larger Catechism Q.155)
This all seems to suggest that preaching is worthwhile because it causes people to seek and find Christ.
No?
But that contradicts everything you have said previously about it being immutably known who will and will not be saved regardless of free-will.
No?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:48 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 9:09 PM Straggler has replied

  
Separatist Puritan
Junior Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 24
From: Austin, TX, USA
Joined: 03-24-2009


Message 175 of 245 (504164)
03-24-2009 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Straggler
03-24-2009 8:55 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
But that contradicts everything you have said previously about it being immutably known who will and will not be saved regardless of free-will.
I understand how this seems like a paradox. The preaching is to give understanding and encouragement to those who would hear.
Rom 10:17- So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Mat 11:15, Mat 13:9, Mat 13:15,

-Separatist Puritan-
"If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Straggler, posted 03-24-2009 8:55 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Straggler, posted 03-24-2009 9:22 PM Separatist Puritan has replied
 Message 177 by Coragyps, posted 03-24-2009 9:42 PM Separatist Puritan has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 176 of 245 (504167)
03-24-2009 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 9:09 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Straggler writes:
But that contradicts everything you have said previously about it being immutably known who will and will not be saved regardless of free-will.
I understand how this seems like a paradox. The preaching is to give understanding and encouragement to those who would hear.
Rom 10:17- So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Nope. Still don't get it.
Do you preach simply to make those who would follow Christ anyway feel better in the here and now? Is that what you are saying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 9:09 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-25-2009 12:07 AM Straggler has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 794 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 177 of 245 (504169)
03-24-2009 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 9:09 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
I understand how this seems like a paradox.
Seems like? I think "is an insoluble paradox" is closer to the truth. And I once bought into a decent-sized slice of that huge bundle of insolubles that is Christianity...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 9:09 PM Separatist Puritan has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 178 of 245 (504176)
03-24-2009 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 8:07 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Evil is not a metaphysical substance. If we leave natural evil to the side ("calamities of nature") and talk about evil acted out by human beings, evil is an act of the will directed against God's law. Since God ordains all things, then it seems to follow that God "created" evil in the sense that he ordained sin.
Your definition of "evil" allows your deity to commit literally any act and have it defined as "good." If a human being rapes, tortures, and murders a bunch of children, you would call this "evil." If your deity does the exact same act, you call it "good."
That means I find your system of ethics to be despicable.
Your "delightful little article" is a demonstration of the complete and utter moral bankruptcy of Biblical ethics. Just from the very top:
quote:
Luke 21:20-24
God is speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem and Judah that he will bring about because Israel has gone after Baal and the grove. When God brings judgment on Jerusalem and Judah he will have pagan sweaty greasy Babylonian soldiers to rip the women up that are pregnant and have the babies bashed to pieces in the streets of Jerusalem.
God will cause mothers to be ripped up and the babies' brains to be bashed in.
Congratulations, you worship an imaginary sociopath.
Your system of ethics is the same one that allows mothers with postpartum depression to drown their children, simply because they believe "god told me to."
If you heard a voice in your head claiming to be your god, and that voice instructed you to kill a young child who lives next door, would you obey the voice? According to your system of ethics, if it is god, you are sinning if you disobey. What would you do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:07 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-25-2009 12:04 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Separatist Puritan
Junior Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 24
From: Austin, TX, USA
Joined: 03-24-2009


Message 179 of 245 (504177)
03-25-2009 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Rahvin
03-24-2009 11:38 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
If you heard a voice in your head claiming to be your god, and that voice instructed you to kill a young child who lives next door, would you obey the voice? According to your system of ethics, if it is god, you are sinning if you disobey. What would you do?
God doesn't talk to people as a voice in their head,.. that is extra biblical revelation. God speaks through his Word, the holy Scripture not some mystical voice in some ones head. I am sorry you do not understand this but there is nothing I can say to change your mind, I can tell that in your posts. You already have a hate toward God. That is fine, you can mock me and the God of the Bible. It doesn't bother me.

-Separatist Puritan-
"If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Rahvin, posted 03-24-2009 11:38 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by shalamabobbi, posted 03-25-2009 12:09 AM Separatist Puritan has not replied

  
Separatist Puritan
Junior Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 24
From: Austin, TX, USA
Joined: 03-24-2009


Message 180 of 245 (504178)
03-25-2009 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Straggler
03-24-2009 9:22 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Straggler;
Just to make sure we are on the same page I am talking about preaching the Word, not "witnessing" door to door, or on the street corner or protests and rallies. I am talking about preaching the Word of God as it is instructed on Lord's Day to a congregation.

-Separatist Puritan-
"If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Straggler, posted 03-24-2009 9:22 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Straggler, posted 03-25-2009 1:46 PM Separatist Puritan has not replied

  
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