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Author Topic:   War on Christmas
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 19 of 245 (370615)
12-18-2006 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by platypus
12-17-2006 8:34 PM


Yuletide Greetings
Yuletide greetings to one and all from a tricky Brit who had not heard the term "Happy Holidays" until now.
I thought what we call holidays you call vacations so now I am really confused.
Anyway - Transatlantic confusion apart - May your Christmas be happy, merry or even both as you see fit.
We get the same stories about the war on Christmas over here too and they usually turn out to be either blown out of all proportion or just untrue as well.
Frankly Christmas has little to dowith Christianity these days anyway so there isn't much to go to war over even if anyone wanted to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by platypus, posted 12-17-2006 8:34 PM platypus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by kuresu, posted 12-18-2006 2:54 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 21 of 245 (370619)
12-18-2006 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Chiroptera
12-18-2006 10:38 AM


And there was me thinking Easter was about Bunny Rabbits and eating huge quantities of chocolate eggs

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2006 10:49 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 23 of 245 (370621)
12-18-2006 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by crashfrog
12-18-2006 10:49 AM


Christmas Traditions
Most of the Christmas traditions - Christmas trees, candles, gift giving, carols, December 25th, 12 days of christmas etc. etc. all have Pagan origins.
The whole Santa Claus, chimney diving, reindeer riding stocking filler tradition also has nothing to do with Christianity.
In fact you could easily omit all the Christian based elements and most people would barely notice the difference.
So I am not sure what there is to have a war, real or imagined, over??

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 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2006 10:49 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 136 of 245 (504076)
03-24-2009 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 12:41 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
So do you celebrate any holy days at all?
Or does "real" Christianity not have any holy days of it's own?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 12:41 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 1:51 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 140 of 245 (504083)
03-24-2009 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 1:51 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
We celebrate Thanksgiving, but that isn't really a holy-day. Christians have 52 Holy-Days a year we are commanded to follow in the Bible, according to the Regulative Principle, to celebrate Christ.
I assume that you mean Sundays. So what do you do on Sundays to celebrate Christ?
Where does it say that Sunday is to be celebrated as Christ's day? Is this in the bible somewhere?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 1:51 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 2:07 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 146 of 245 (504101)
03-24-2009 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 2:07 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
We pray, sing the psalms, listen to a Biblical Sermon and fellowship.
That doesn't seem like much fun. Do you guys ever celebrate in the sense of letting your hair down and partying in any way?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 2:07 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 4:46 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 148 by kuresu, posted 03-24-2009 4:47 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 151 of 245 (504109)
03-24-2009 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by kuresu
03-24-2009 4:47 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
on a more serious side, they probably enjoy doing such, and so long as it's not harming anyone, who cares.
It is not so much care as in telling him he is wrong I am just interested. I have never met a seperatist puritan before.
I am intrigued to know more and the topic is celebrations of a religious nature so I just thought I would ask......
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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 Message 148 by kuresu, posted 03-24-2009 4:47 PM kuresu has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 152 of 245 (504111)
03-24-2009 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 4:46 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Straggler writes:
That doesn't seem like much fun. Do you guys ever celebrate in the sense of letting your hair down and partying in any way?
Not on Lord's Day, the other 6 days are fair game. In other words...Yes
So you would celebrate your own birthday just like anyone else then?
And how do you celebrate? Music, food, booze.......?
What is off limits and what is on limits and what is the rationale for anything that is off/on which might be deemed unusually so by an outsider?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 4:46 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 5:54 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 155 of 245 (504119)
03-24-2009 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 5:54 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
I don't celebrate my birth.
Wow! I thought every culture celebrated birthdays.
How about weddings?
Well I guess orgies would be out of the question...LOL
Oh well.......
Yes.. all of the above. I am a beer snob of sorts,
I have never got to grips with the cold, watery fizzy stuff you guys tend to call beer. More of an "ale" snob personally.
I guess what I mean is that we have a good time, but I cling to certain morals mostly involving the 10 commandments and Christ's instructions to living a holy lifestyle.
Do you eat shellfish? Do you eat pork?
I don't believe our salvation is based on works.
If we are not judged on what we do then, if one believes in judgement of any sort, on what are we judged?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 5:54 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 6:15 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 157 of 245 (504122)
03-24-2009 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 6:15 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Straggler writes:
Do you eat shellfish? Do you eat pork?
As much as humanly possible.
I thought those things were frowned upon as a result of strict biblical interpretation?
Straggler writes:
If we are not judged on what we do then, if one believes in judgement of any sort, on what are we judged?
I wasn't talking about judgment, I was talking about salvation.
Oh. If one does not seek salvation is one not adjudged on that basis?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 6:15 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 6:34 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 159 of 245 (504124)
03-24-2009 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 6:34 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Some do, but these things were a spiritual representation. Peter's vision in Acts 10:9-16 (in which he was told by the Lord to kill and eat the unclean animals) was a repeal of the Jewish dietary laws (however there is a critical teaching of this passage as well)
Another member here (Grany Magda) has a signature which I think has alot of truth to it:
"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
How do you react to that line of thinking? Do you think that there is any truth in that quote?
Salvation by God's grace not works.
That is depressing! I might as well have that orgie I was planning after all.....
If God knows our future do we have any free-will in life? Or not? In your opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 6:34 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 7:11 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 162 of 245 (504128)
03-24-2009 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 7:11 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
But if I "choose" to follow Christ, that is because God put that desire in me. This is the big debate in Christianity known as Calvinism vs. Arminianism.
I know I could look this stuff up but:
A) I am lazy despite being interested.
B) Having someone who actually believes this stuff willing to answer questions is so much more relevant and "fun".
So could you choose to suddenly stop following Christ of your own free-will?
I am intrigued by this dividing line between that which is able to be chosen and that which is immutably foretold to all practical intents and purposes.
I have never followed Christ. In your opinion is it beyond the scope of my free-will to do so?
Are those (some here) that have declared that they wish to "save me" by convincing me of God wasting their time? Is it just a case of "If you will you will. If you won't you won't". God has already decided so just get on with your life and don't worry about it.
Is that what you are saying? Yours is not an evangelistic religion?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 7:11 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 7:45 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 168 of 245 (504140)
03-24-2009 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 7:45 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Yes, but if you are chosen (Elect) by Christ, you will eventually come back to him.. Like the shepherd will bring his sheep back to the flock when they stray off. But a Sheep can not just decide to become a goat by it's own free will. This is why we are not to judge people .. some might be sheep running away from the flock at the time.
So if it will happen it will happen and if it won't it won't.
No need to worry about it then. Either let it happen or not as the case may be.
If you ever decided to follow him, it would be because God has given you that desire , it would be irresistible like something you felt like you had to do.
So if it will happen it will happen and if it won't it won't.
No need to worry about it then. Either let it happen or not as the case may be.
Straggler writes:
Are those (some here) that have declared that they wish to "save me" by convincing me of God wasting their time? Is it just a case of "If you will you will. If you won't you won't". God has already decided so just get on with your life and don't worry about it. Is that what you are saying.
Straggler writes:
Yours is not an evangelistic religion?
(Added by edit to previous post)
SP writes:
We are commanded to preach the gospel to every one, but we have no power at all of our selves to "save" any one. In fact that is a very dangerous train of thought. No one can make some one elect. only God can make people aware of their election.
That seems a little contradictory.
Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching.
So why preach?
Why not just spend the wasted time preaching drinking ale and smoking cigars instead?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 7:45 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:20 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 172 of 245 (504153)
03-24-2009 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 8:20 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
Straggler writes:
Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching. So why preach?
Isn't that a great question.. I thought the same. The only answer I can give right now (cause I am about to eat supper)is that the holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament command us to preach the Word. It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect.
Well I am glad that you enjoyed the question. And that you have asked it yourself.
But the answer "It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect" is completely incomprehensible to me.
What does that actually mean?
Why preach? Because Jesus says so despite it being pontless? Because it is a test of faith? But your faith is not of your own choosing anyway.......
I am bewildred as to the point of you preaching. Can you explain further?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:20 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:48 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 174 of 245 (504160)
03-24-2009 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Separatist Puritan
03-24-2009 8:48 PM


Re: there should be a "War on Christmas"
The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the Word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation. (Westminster Larger Catechism Q.155)
This all seems to suggest that preaching is worthwhile because it causes people to seek and find Christ.
No?
But that contradicts everything you have said previously about it being immutably known who will and will not be saved regardless of free-will.
No?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 8:48 PM Separatist Puritan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Separatist Puritan, posted 03-24-2009 9:09 PM Straggler has replied

  
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