Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 58 (9174 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: Neptune7
Post Volume: Total: 917,603 Year: 4,860/9,624 Month: 208/427 Week: 18/103 Day: 7/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   War on Christmas
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 17 of 245 (370455)
12-17-2006 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Omnivorous
12-17-2006 11:43 AM


Re: BREAKING NEWS! Dawkins Wishes Merry Christmas To All! : Errata
This publication regrets that it misquoted Mr. Dawkins when it reported that he wished everyone a "Merry Christmas."
In fact, he wished everyone a "Happy Christmas", being British and all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Omnivorous, posted 12-17-2006 11:43 AM Omnivorous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by platypus, posted 12-17-2006 8:34 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 38 of 245 (372369)
12-26-2006 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
12-26-2006 12:51 PM


quote:
maybe we can illustrate how nutty of a job these left-wingers can be
Who are the "left-wingers", exactly?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-26-2006 12:51 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 41 of 245 (372408)
12-27-2006 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
12-26-2006 12:51 PM


quote:
I just like insulting liberals. I think its fun and its easy to get a rise out of them.
You know what that makes you? It makes you a childish dick who never outgrew pubescent playground antics.
I'm interested in having grown-up, serious political discussions. If all you can bring to the table is trolling, then please bugger off.
Don't waste my time.
quote:
Some of the stuff I post on the internets is total bullshit. Semi-trolling, engaging people. I hope you can tell when I’m being serious and when I’m not, but probably not always. The insulting stuff only comes out because of the anonymity, or if I’m pissed off because of something in RL. I do find liberals to be really annoying though.
The thing is, CS, the stuff you post, (just for fun we are to understand) that you think is "total bullshit, semi-troll" stuff?
There are dozens, if not hundreds, of right wingers posting that bullshit (and much more extreme bullshit) all over the net and they all believe what they are writing is 100% correct and true. Many of these are major blogger or religious sites with tens of thousands of hits each day.
What I've come to understand is that it is basically impossible to satirize the right wingers anymore, because every time somebody tries to write some silly, extreme, obviously over-the-top satire of the right wing nutjobs, it is discovered afterwords that there are already several right wing nutjobs out there who seriously, sincerely espouse those silly, extreme, over-the-top views. And not only that; lots and lots of people support these nutjobs and voice their support on these sites.
Anybody who has been regularly following Tom Tommorow's comic This Modern World for the last few years knows exactly what I'm talking about.
So, CS, if you want to discuss politics with those of us at the grown up table, you will have to get some manners.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-26-2006 12:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2006 11:49 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 48 of 245 (372431)
12-27-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by anastasia
12-27-2006 11:27 AM


Although I understand and mostly share your sentiments, I also understand how, as a non-Christian, it feels to live in a culture that is simply awash in Christianity.
There is almost no place to escape it. Every town of every size has at least one church, and many towns and cities have dozens and dozens. Only Christian religious holidays are deemed important enough to close our secular schools and governement offices. Our governement has become increasingly controlled by conservative Christian special interest groups. We have references to God on our money, in the pledge to our flag, and in several patriotic songs. The laws of the land often reflect oppressive Christian moral strictures that have no place in a secular code of law in a secular government. The first president Bush expressed the hatred and bigotry of many people in the US when he said during an interview, in response to the question:
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
I could go on, but I think my point is made.
You, being a Christian, probably don't even notice. But I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by anastasia, posted 12-27-2006 11:27 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by anastasia, posted 12-27-2006 1:09 PM nator has replied
 Message 53 by dwise1, posted 12-27-2006 1:38 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 49 of 245 (372432)
12-27-2006 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by New Cat's Eye
12-27-2006 11:49 AM


Well, you can certainly choose to behave like a troll and a bully, CS, but remember that I am also an Admin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2006 11:49 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 57 of 245 (372460)
12-27-2006 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by anastasia
12-27-2006 1:09 PM


The point is, anastasia, that maybe you might give a break to us non-Christians who have to put up with nearly inescapable Christianity here in the US, including in our government, where it does not belong.
It can get to feeling rather oppressive sometimes, especially around the holidays.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by anastasia, posted 12-27-2006 1:09 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by anastasia, posted 12-27-2006 4:58 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 58 of 245 (372461)
12-27-2006 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Hyroglyphx
12-27-2006 3:39 PM


quote:
We have to remember that a major factor in the fight for sovereignty was that early Americans were fleeing religious persecution.
Are you talking about the Puritans, or the Founding Fathers here?
quote:
Are you suggesting that people are stripped of their citizenship for not believing in the Judeo-Christian God? That would be absurd if so. Just ask the American atheists on the forum if they're citizenship has been revoked.
The point is, Juggs, that Bush Sr., a US president, stated that American Athiests shouldn't be considered citizens.
While I agree with you that it is absurd, Bush clearly didn't think there was anything absurd in the least about such an idea.
I've listened to the people who called in to C-SPAN when the man who wanted to get "under god" removed from the pledge was a guest. Many of them vehemently told him to get out of America, and consistently proclimed that Athiests shouldn't have any rights, and even that Athiests should be imprisoned.
As it is, I am very careful to whom I reveal that I don't believe in any supernatural god/s. Most of my family doesn't even know.
Nobody's had their US citizenship revoked because they are black, but that doesn't mean there isn't systematic racism and persecution and oppression.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-27-2006 3:39 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-28-2006 12:25 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 66 of 245 (372648)
12-28-2006 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Hyroglyphx
12-28-2006 12:25 PM


quote:
Puritans fled from religious persecution who were the parents and grandparents of the Founding Fathers.
Um, I hadn't heard that the Puritans were the ancestors of many, if any, of the Founding Fathers. Do you have any documentation for this claim?
quote:
Bush Sr comment on how he feels is irrelevant to the state of affairs of an entire nation which Alacrity seemed to imply.
The President of the United States statesd that a group of Americans should NOT be considered citizens nor patriots because they don't believe in the supernatural.
You don't think that this is relevant to the state of affairs in the country?
Pardon?
quote:
I guess it goes both ways because I've heard the same vehemence going in the opposite direction.
Wait. You've heard Athiests sincerely saying that Christians shouldn't have any Constitutional rights, and that Christians should get out of America simply because of their religious beliefs?
You've heard this where? I can link you to transcripts of my claims.
As it is, I am very careful to whom I reveal that I don't believe in any supernatural god/s. Most of my family doesn't even know.
quote:
Your family doesn't know? Why not?
Mostly because I don't want the ill treatment and disrespect and patronizing that I know would result.
...that had already resulted when I made the mistake of telling my sister.
People get very funny when you tell them you have rejected the beliefs that they raised you to believe. They seem to become personally threatened.
quote:
Who exactly is systematically persecuting and oppressing black people, other than a dying breed like the KKK who has about as much clout as the girl scouts?
The culture in general is still racist.
And I don't know if you spend any time in the south, but "nigger jokes" are still pretty popular.
And the KKK has been supplanted by ultra-right wing movements like the Neo-Nazis, Skinheads, and many "legitimate" political parties in Europe, particularly in France and Germany.
quote:
The only fear facing most black people today is the fear of being patronized to death.
Oh yeah?
The FBI disagrees with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-28-2006 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Quetzal, posted 01-01-2007 12:58 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 72 of 245 (373082)
12-30-2006 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by anastasia
12-30-2006 5:17 PM


Re: patriotism to which values?
quote:
There is still something to be said for person B. There are times when it takes an individual's views to make the country better. For example, Martin Luther King Jr. It is IMO an admirable thing also to adhere to a moral standard that you feel is important in spite of ANY constitution or declaration.
But...MLK was adhering to the Constitution.
I think that RAZD's point was that when President George H.W. Bush declared that he didn't think that Athiests should be considered citizens nor patriots, he was putting his religious views ahead of the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights.
For a President to do this, when he had sworn to uphold the Constitution, is shocking.
...or should be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 5:17 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by anastasia, posted 12-31-2006 12:46 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2252 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 87 of 245 (373231)
12-31-2006 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
12-31-2006 1:21 PM


Re: patriotism to which values?
quote:
I say that majority rules.
Not regarding our Rights.
The Bill of Rights exists specifically to protect the minority from the "tyrrany of the majority".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 12-31-2006 1:21 PM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024