Does Islam need a Reformation?

Surely you realize that petty and immature comments diminish oneself pesonally and intellectually, and diminish this site. That a few others have posted similarly, without rebuke or comment from administrators is surprising, given my understanding that EvC subscribes to qualitative standards.

Welcome to Double(Quality-)Standard Wonderland where Biblical creationists and social conservatives are routinely bashed while the barbarian liberals and evolutionists sometimes get a brief suspension if they are egregiously obnoxious.This message has been edited by Faith, 08-02-2005 12:25 PM

"What's wrong with not saying so is this: If we Muslims can't bring
ourselves to question the peaceable perfection of the Koran, then we
can't effectively question the actions that flow from certain readings
of it. All we'll be doing is chanting that the terrorists broke the
rules, without coming to terms with where they got their concept of
"the rules" in the first place. In which case, we'll only be
sanitizing what we don't want to hear.That's no way to address Islam's intellectual lethargy, or the moral
dereliction that goes with it."Get The Wall Street Journal’s Opinion columnists, editorials, op-eds, letters to the editor, and book and arts reviews.

By Patrick Sookhdeo
The Spectator | August 2, 2005"The funeral of British suicide bomber Shehzad Tanweer was held in absentia in his family’s ancestral village, near Lahore, Pakistan. Thousands of people attended, as they did again the following day when a qul ceremony was held for Tanweer. During qul, the Koran is recited to speed the deceased’s journey to paradise, though in Tanweer’s case this was hardly necessary. Being a shahid (martyr), he is deemed to have gone straight to paradise. The 22-year-old from Leeds, whose bomb at Aldgate station killed seven people, was hailed by the crowd as ”a hero of Islam’."----------------------------------------------------------
This is further evidence of the civil war within Islam. Ultimately, only the majority peaceful Muslims can win it. But we must not be naive, or we will pay more severely before the good guys win.

"The question of how to fight Islamic terrorism preoccupies many Arab reformists who are working to denounce Islamist thought, to encourage independent and critical thinking, and to establish values of democracy and human rights in the Muslim world. For example, in February 2005, a group of reformists submitted to the U.N. a request that it establish an international court to judge Muslim clerics who incite to violence and bloodshed. The request was examined by the U.N. legal counseland distributed to the U.N. Security Council. [1]Following the July 7, 2005 London bombings, Arab reformists further expanded their criticism and honed their arguments, not only regarding Muslim extremists, but also regarding the European countries, particularly Britain, which allows extremist activity within its borders in the name of protecting individual rights. They also increased their criticism of the silent Muslim majority and moderate Muslim intellectuals, who capitulate to Islamist pressure and do not speak out decisively against it.The following are some of the recommendations by reformist Arab writers."-------------------------------------------------------------------
These are the topics covered in the article, to which i'll provide the URL at the end:Europe Must Change its Lenient Treatment of Muslim ExtremistsIncitement on the Internet Must Be StoppedArab Intellectuals Must Stop Speaking in Two VoicesThe Terrorists Must Be Separated from Their SympathizersMuslims Must Denounce the Terrorists; The West Must Stop Being NaiveMuslims Must Ban Suicide Bombings for Moral ReasonsThe Religious Institutions Must Take Practical Measures Against the TerroristsThe Muslims Must Form a New Religious CultureThe Silent Majority Must Speak Out Against the TerroristsThe War on Terrorism Requires Extensive Intellectual, Political and Educational ActivityPage not found | MEMRI

As I said, your posts speak for themselves.

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Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

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Pro 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

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Pro 10:18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.

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Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

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Pro 12:16 A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.

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Pro 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.

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Okay, I won't quote the entire book of Proverbs.

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2Co 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.

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Let's see if I get suspended for quoting the Bible. This message has been edited by Ringo316, 2005-08-02 12:45 PM

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People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Did your post help advance the discussion?

Fascinating. Every one of those Biblical quotes describes the way you -- as the fool -- have been dealing with Steve.This message has been edited by Faith, 08-02-2005 04:13 PM

Many Muslim moderates take it as fact that the islamists have nothing to do with honest Islam. Other moderates disagree. either way, both groups are our friends. The following is a succinct analyses of the problem and a to the point strategy on how to defeat the Islamists. The author, a moderate Muslim, says the Islamic world needs the US's help.The following is an excerpt from the article. The URL for all of it I'll post at the end.----------------------------------------------------------------------"It is not hard to have the silent Muslim majority on our side if we can reach them. It is not hard to convince some of the fanatics by using the fanatic tradition against them. Also, it is very easy to recruit open-minded Muslims and organize them in this peaceful war against terrorism. Actually, they are eager to be organized and supported by the U.S so that they can attain freedom and rid themselves and the world of the terrorist danger."Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz

A PS. Here's a blurb on the author of the article I cited above:"Dr. Ahmed Subhy Mansour is a distinguished scholar of Islam with expertise in Islamic history, culture, theology and politics. An Egyptian national now living in the U.S., he was an advocate for democracy and human rights in Egypt for many years, during which time he himself was isolated and persecuted by religious extremists and by the regime."

From yesterday's Washington Post:..."The traditionalists' refusal of history plays right into the hands of the literalist Islamofascists, allowing them to imprison Islam in their iron certainties and unchanging absolutes. If, however, the Koran were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages. Laws made in the seventh century could finally give way to the needs of the 21st. The Islamic Reformation has to begin here, with an acceptance of the concept that all ideas, even sacred ones, must adapt to altered realities."http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=...

There ahve been several fatwas signed by hundreds of Muslim clerics against violence committed against "innocents." The problem, as many analysts have noted, is that the war verses side of islam sees no infidels as innocent. Indded, even a few of clerics who signed these fatwas have, in other sources, said as much. Some may ask: But isn't this deception? islamists read the faith as sanctioning deception in the aim of furthering the faith imperialist obligations. They point out to deception practised by and sanctioned by Mohammed himself. Of course, non Islamist Muslims explain those passages and events differently. Nonetheless, this gives more credence to the picture of a civil war within Islam and the need of a reformation.Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz

Nobody seems to be interested in thinking about the important facts you've been posting here. Too bad. You're about as popular as a biblical young-earth creationist. A small but elite company however.

Amazingly, some of us here can think without opening our mouths. Maybe it's a skill you should look into?Perhaps nobody's commented on Steve's posts because he's not currently defending any positions we've disputed. There's clearly a fracturous dialogue at play within the Muslim world.So what?

so it's time for intelligent men and women to give up religion altogether. We all know that Christianity is a nasty ideology in the wrong mouths; Islam and Hinduism too. Let's give it all up and start THINKINGmick