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Author Topic:   World religions
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 120 (286215)
02-13-2006 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by inkorrekt
02-13-2006 1:25 PM


Stop double posting.
You seem to have a habit of making duplicate posts. Either learn to use the edit function, if that is what you are doing, or get some patience.

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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 60 by inkorrekt, posted 02-13-2006 1:25 PM inkorrekt has not replied

    ReverendDG
    Member (Idle past 4136 days)
    Posts: 1119
    From: Topeka,kansas
    Joined: 06-06-2005


    Message 62 of 120 (286336)
    02-14-2006 1:04 AM
    Reply to: Message 58 by dattaswami
    02-13-2006 10:27 AM


    Re: No Substance
    i see, could you answer the questions?
    i would like to know what you believe, but not more preaching, and anything dealing with god or gods is a religion by definition

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 58 by dattaswami, posted 02-13-2006 10:27 AM dattaswami has not replied

    inkorrekt
    Member (Idle past 6107 days)
    Posts: 382
    From: Westminster,CO, USA
    Joined: 02-04-2006


    Message 63 of 120 (293112)
    03-07-2006 8:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 9 by dattaswami
    02-02-2006 11:12 AM


    Re: Slow down...
    I am working as a scientist, and i am involved in the propagation of the divine knowledge of my satguru
    Anil, you seem to have a christian name. What is your field of speciality in Scince?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by dattaswami, posted 02-02-2006 11:12 AM dattaswami has not replied

    Rawel Singh
    Inactive Member


    Message 64 of 120 (294130)
    03-10-2006 6:10 PM


    Evolution of Religious Thought
    The discussions on comparative religion above are interesting.I propose to present how the religious thought has developwd over the ages based on what is given in the scriptures.
    Some entity worthy of adoration and worship has existed all along from the prehistoric days. It probably started with spirits followed by deities accompanied by idolatory. The idols were not necessarily the graven images as mentioned in the Bible but also people with authority like the rulers in Mesopotamia and Egypt. Before proceeding further let us mention the main religions that are being practiced. In terms of their coming onto being the current organized religions are Hinduism, Judais, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and Sikhism. In terms of number of followers in the descending order world wide they are Christianity, Islam, Budhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and Judaism. It is appropriate to discuss the evolution of religious thought in the order the religions came into being. The thought of a single God applies to all the above religions except Buddhism.
    Whereas the Hindu religion has the concept of a Single God, it also believes in demigods and goddesses totalling 330 million.It is therefore not strictly a monotheistic religion. It believes in a lot of dogmas and rituals.The Hindu society has ben divded according to castes. The priestly class heads the caste sustem. The caste system and particularly the exercise of authority by the priestly class was responsible for Buddhism coming into being in India. Due to later developments Buddhism was almost completely driven out of India. Buddhism does not mention the existence of God but emphasizes moral behavior to come out of the miseries that life presents. Hinduism was followed by what are the great monotheistic religions. Judaism was the first monotheistic religion as described in the Old Testament. The concept of God here is that of a God of one people, Israel. The scripture quotes God as calling Israel His child and God taking on Himself to exticate them from egypt and promise them their own land. God is all powerful but is the God of Israel.Extensive rituals particularly the burnt offerings are laid down. Christianity has a wider view of God's domain but his status is greatly diluted by His existence as part of the Trinity.The God of the New Testament, if one goes by what is recorded therein, is there to support Jesus who performs God's functions. Jesus is described as the Lord, a term used for God in other scriptures. There are a large number of dogmas in Cristianity.Christ was crucified because he pointed out the shortcomings in Jewish religious practices and called himself the son of God. Islam which followed Christianity believes in one all powerful God. He is the God of all universe. The Quran is a record of revelations Prophet received from God. It recognizes the Old and New Testaments but criticizes Jesus for equating himself to God. The scripture almost in its entirety is addressed to Muslim males. Muslim males enjoy supremacy over the females. Everybody is asked to believe in God, the Book and the Last day. Judaism, Christianity and Islam have powerful priestly classes. As may be seen there is an underlying antaginism between these Semitic religions and has been responsible for much bloodshed in the name of religion. All the semitic religions emanated from the Middle East; the Bible and the Quran contain narratives of that area.Islam was followed by the Sikh religion which is the latest of the monotheistic religions. This religion believes in one God, has no dogmas or rituals, has no priestly class. God is the Universal God of the total universe. God is acknowledged with his unlimited majesty. The hymns do not refer to any parrticular region. It asks to repect the scriptures of all religions.There is no gender bias. Until recently the head of the controlling religious organization was a lady. There are three fundamental teachings, namely remembering God. earning honestly and sharing with the needy; in short it is acknowledging God and realizing social responsibility.
    It would be noticed that religious thought has developed alogwith develoment of human intellect. This is clear from the thought moving from spirits, to idols, exclusive God of the Jews, a God of the New Testament with wider powers, a still more powerul GOd of the Quran and all powerful God of Guru Granth, the scripture of the Sikhs. This is also in line with two other aspects namely development of science and communications. The latter facilitated progressively better interaction between people of the different regions leading to social interaction. Education was also responsible for people protesting against exploitation on the basis of gender or caste. Scientific thinking and facilities for observation of the planetary system helped understand the powers of nature as also to respond to the dogmas being questioned.
    Rawel Singh
    This message has been edited by Rawel Singh, 03-10-2006 06:11 PM
    EvC is not here for preaching but discussions. This looks very much like it's headed in that direction.
    This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-10-2006 09:07 PM

    Replies to this message:
     Message 65 by dattaswami, posted 03-10-2006 10:00 PM Rawel Singh has not replied
     Message 66 by dattaswami, posted 03-10-2006 10:01 PM Rawel Singh has replied

    dattaswami 
    Inactive Member


    Message 65 of 120 (294177)
    03-10-2006 10:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 64 by Rawel Singh
    03-10-2006 6:10 PM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    Who created God
    God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.
    Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire. Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.
    For the sake of entertainment, God desired to create the Universe. This statement is in Veda (Sa dviteeya Maicchat). In this statement there is a very subtle intermediate stage, which is the essence of the desire to create the Universe. The desire to create the world is like the golden ornament but the essence of such desire is like the raw gold in which the ornament is not yet expressed. Such raw essence of the desire is pure awareness. The pure awareness is a special subtle form of energy, which is not qualified by any form. Such pure awareness is called as the spirit, which is not qualified and does not have any attribute. This is called as “Nirguna Brahman”, which means the pure awareness, which has no reference to the creation of the universe. It is a very critical and subtle point to recognize the pure awareness. Veda says that only very very sharp intelligence can grasp that critical state (Drushyate Tvagraya bhuddhya). Sankara, the topmost genius among the spiritual preachers could grasp that state and proposed the concept of Nirguna Brahman or non-qualified pure awareness. Such pure awareness is the first creation of God (Parabrahman). This first creation is almost as critical and unimaginable as the very Parabrahman itself. The only difference is that Parabrahman is absolutely unimaginable for any sharp intelligence, but this pure awareness is imaginable only for a very sharp intelligence. This pure awareness is called as Mula Prakriti or Suddha Sattvam or Mula Avidya or Mula Maya or the Spirit in general. The Parabrahman maintains such spirit and it is only an associated item and is the first created item. The word Mula means the first. This spirit is in the form of knowledge. It is aware of itself, which means that it is knowledge. Knowledge requires both subjective and objective characteristics. It is subject as well as the object. Therefore, it is called as knowledge or Sattvam. This knowledge is the first form of energy. Energy is always active. Action is the characteristic of Rajas. Such Spirit is unaware of its own creator who is the God. Therefore, it is having ignorance or Tamas. Thus, the Knowledge itself is action and ignorance. According to Gita Knowledge is Sattvam (Sattvaat Sanjayate Jnanam), action is Rajas (Rajah Karmani) and Ignorance is Tamas (Tamastva Jnanajam). Thus these three qualities are always inseparable. The pure knowledge (Suddha Sattvam) itself is pure action (Suddha Rajas), which is the pure ignorance (Suddha Tamas). Thus in the very first instant itself the three qualities are created simultaneously in the purest state. Since all these three co-exist, it is called as equilibrium of the three qualities. When the equilibrium is disturbed various items of awareness result in which the three qualities exist in various proportions. Such disturbance of the equilibrium resulting in various distorted items of the three qualities is the very creation. The various mixtures of these three qualities constitute this diversified universe, which is meant for the play of the God and for His entertainment. When the entertainment is over all the three qualities go into the equilibrium state. Thus the Universe is converted into Mula Prakruti.
    God is in association with this Mula Prakruti in the beginning. At this stage the Mula Prakruti is only a creation or created item and cannot do anything further. Its equilibrium continues. In fact the Mula Prakruti is only inert and the continuation of such equilibrium is the inertia. God enters the Mula Prakruti and pervades it. Now this Mula Prakruti is electrified wire. It is the ignited stick and is called as fire. Now this Mula Prakruti becomes divine and is called as Brahman or the Holy Spirit. The Spirit, which is just the inert created item became Holy due to the existence of God in it. Now Brahman multiplies its little part of the Mula Prakruti in which, Parabrahman does not exist. This means that God enters ninety nine percent of Mula Prakruti and not one percent. This little part of un-divine Mula Prakruti is multiplied by the disturbed equilibrium and the Universe appears. Thus, the pure awareness in which God pervaded becomes Brahman. Now Brahman becomes the spectator of the Universe. The little pure awareness into which God did not enter is modified into the Universe in which God does not exist. Here the modification does not mean materialization. The modification means the undisturbed equilibrium being converted into disturbed equilibrium. In both the states the substance is only awareness. You can compare this to a day-dreamer’s mind. The mind of the day-dreamer is Mula Prakruti. A little part of the mind is converted into dream. The mind, which is not converted, is a spectator of the dream. The dreamer is identified with the spectator part of the mind. Thus the dreamer is witnessing the dream through his unmodified mind. The dreamer has not entered the dream and therefore is not multiplied. When the dream city is burning neither the spectator part of the mind is burnt nor the dreamer. The spectator part of the mind itself can be treated as the dreamer because the dreamer entered that spectator part of the mind and exists in it. Thus, Brahman, the spectator of the Universe can be treated as Parabrahman. Such Parabrahman who is the spectator of the Universe is called as Eeshwara. Thus, Parabrahman is the original unimaginable creator. Mula Prakrithi is the first created item, which is the pure awareness. Brahman is the major part of pure awareness in which Parabrahman entered and occupied it. The same Brahman enjoying the Universe by vision is called as Eeshwara. Neither Parabrahman nor Brahman nor the Eeswara has entered the Universe, which is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities. Thus, there is no disturbance in either Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara. In Christianity God is Parabrahman. Brahman and Eeshwara are called as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the substance with which the Universe is made of. The spirit is not Holy because God did not occupy it. Thus the Universe is not Holy in Toto. It is Holy with reference to the good devotees and the divine incarnations. It is unholy with reference to bad living beings and Saturn. Parabrahman who is a spectator for sometime develops a desire to enter this Universe in the form of a living being especially as a human being because the main aim is to preach the divine knowledge. Veda says the same (Tadevaanu Praavishat). This divine human being in which, Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara exists is called as human incarnation or God in Flesh. The human incarnation consists of four items. The first item is God. The second item is the Mula Prakruti, which is the pure awareness or Brahman or Aatman or Karana Sareeram (Casual Body). The third item is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities called as Jeeva or Sukshma Sareera (Subtle Body). The fourth item is the Gross body made of five elements (Sthula Sareera) which is again imaginary only in view of God but a materialized form in view of other human beings. If you analyse any ordinary living being it contains all the three bodies except God. If we analyse any inert item of the world it contains only the Gross Body made of the five elements.
    God should be understood as the unimaginable creator. Next God can be understood as the unimaginable spectator of the world. Lastly, God should be understood as the unimaginable actor who has entered the Universal Drama in the form of Human Incarnation.
    EvC is not here for preaching but discussions. This looks very much like it's headed in that direction.
    This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-10-2006 09:07 PM

    At Thy Lotus Feet
    Anil Antony
    Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 64 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-10-2006 6:10 PM Rawel Singh has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 85 by inkorrekt, posted 03-14-2006 10:17 PM dattaswami has replied

    dattaswami 
    Inactive Member


    Message 66 of 120 (294179)
    03-10-2006 10:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 64 by Rawel Singh
    03-10-2006 6:10 PM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    I want to bring the world peace by bringing the brotherly-hood among the religions. Unless this is brought, the brotherly-hood among the followers of various religions will not come. Religion is only the external plastic cover. Spiritualism is the same material packed in different religions. Whatever may be the color of the external plastic cover, the internal metallic wire and current are one and the same in all the wires. Whatever may be the color of the plastic cover, every wire will move the fan since the same current is passing in all the wires. For the sake of money, one man is quarreling with another man without recognizing the same soul that is present in all the human beings. Similarly one country is fighting with another country due to the difference in the religions without recognizing the same spiritual current that exists in all the religions. If you want to convey the greatness of spiritualism present in your religion, you must expose the common points between your religion and the other religion. Then the person of other religion will become your friend. After that you expose the greatness of spiritualism in your religion. Then he will understand and appreciate your religion. But if you deeply analyze, the same spiritualism to the same depth is present in all the religions. The Lord is only one and came to different countries and taught the same syllabus in different languages. Religion is only the external culture of dress, food habits, language etc.; Spiritualism is the subject related to one God who created this entire universe.
    EvC is not here for preaching but discussions. This looks very much like it's headed in that direction.
    This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-10-2006 09:08 PM

    At Thy Lotus Feet
    Anil Antony
    Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 64 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-10-2006 6:10 PM Rawel Singh has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 67 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-10-2006 10:34 PM dattaswami has replied

    Rawel Singh
    Inactive Member


    Message 67 of 120 (294184)
    03-10-2006 10:34 PM
    Reply to: Message 66 by dattaswami
    03-10-2006 10:01 PM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    Dear Mr Anil,
    This is with reference to your two insertions. You have given a lot of material. Frankly I am not clear what you are trying to convey. Let us do it like this. I have given the evolution of thought as I understand it. You kindly comment on the ideas or give fresh ideas. The treatise given by you is wide rqnging and mostly in the form of a sermon. I do not object to that, but there should be some direction to what is being put across. Let me ask you about idolatry in temples including erotica. We can start from here and cover various aspects. Or if you would like to pick up any other point kindly do so. Let us have one understanding: there is no place for abrasive words when discussing spirituality.Let the discussion be productive.
    Rawel Singh
    This message has been edited by Rawel Singh, 03-11-2006 10:20 AM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by dattaswami, posted 03-10-2006 10:01 PM dattaswami has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 68 by dattaswami, posted 03-11-2006 1:10 AM Rawel Singh has replied

    dattaswami 
    Inactive Member


    Message 68 of 120 (294201)
    03-11-2006 1:10 AM
    Reply to: Message 67 by Rawel Singh
    03-10-2006 10:34 PM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    Idol Worship
    The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a stone or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord always comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu Masritam).
    Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc., were only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come whenever there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).
    Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and statue for you. You should go from school to college and then to university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future ignorant devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).
    For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but says that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord (Adityam brahmeti).
    Therefore seeing and meditation upon the statues and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But the other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks, oil lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not mentioned in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air pollution harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be avoided.
    Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord only but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and offering of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to the priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the merchants by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped, because such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the devotees and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only. Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only ”Janna Eagan’ in the temple and not the ”dravya Eagan’ as said in the Gita (Sreyaan dravyamayat).
    Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are not done.
    All this is false, because the theory of ”karma’ says that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam . kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the temple, which must be ”nishkama karma yoga’ i.e., sacrifice of work and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of the divine knowledge.

    At Thy Lotus Feet
    Anil Antony
    Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 67 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-10-2006 10:34 PM Rawel Singh has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 69 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-11-2006 7:26 AM dattaswami has replied

    Rawel Singh
    Inactive Member


    Message 69 of 120 (294224)
    03-11-2006 7:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 68 by dattaswami
    03-11-2006 1:10 AM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    Thanks. Since we were discussing evolution of thought, let us proceed to see how idol worship came about. In the earlier stages people used to have their personal deities and worshipped them by singing together. One of the venerable personalitiesin Hindu mythology is the sage Narada. He was one with very deep knowledge and travelled all over to teach. One of his famous disciples was Dhrua, who was the son of king but saw that his mother was illtreated. On inquiring the reason, the mother told him that it was becuse she had agnored to remember God. The young boy left the palace and went into the jungle to pray. There he was met by Narada and benefitted from his teachings. Narada being very learned, but of fickle mind, thought of something to concetrate on, and idolatry started. However this was not limited to the Hindus.In the Old Testament we see Abraham's father making and selling idols. When Abraham was enlightened, he asked the idols to eat; when they did not, he broke and threw away all the idols. Similarly when Moses did not return from Mount Sinai for a long time the people got impatient and went back to idol worship. When Moses returned after getting direction from God, he had the idol destroyed.
    You have given the view that idol worship should continue since the idols represent the Lord. Can you pl quote where this is said, althiugh I agree people sayit that way. And that is just the reason that ones who take to idol worship are never able to give it up. The reason lies in the fact that that when they see the idol and burn incense or offer flowers and food the find theselves doing something tangible. There is no doubt that this is done with great devotion. Once that happens they are tied in bondage. The Quran and Guru Granth point out the futility of worshipping something 'you have made yourself'. Saint Kabir makes the point that the idol is graven with the artisan putting his foot on it; if it had any powers, it would devour him. You takled of graduation from school to college.Could you please say if there is any example where people once taking to idol worship have given it up? Incidentally where is that college?.The place to worship the Lord is in the mind, for that is where His abode is. Going to places of worship and participating in cogregations is necesary because there we are reminded of what we should be doing. Also it promotes a feeling of togetherness with the others. For this no images are required; just the focus on the One Lord.
    God Bless

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by dattaswami, posted 03-11-2006 1:10 AM dattaswami has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 70 by dattaswami, posted 03-11-2006 10:19 PM Rawel Singh has replied

    dattaswami 
    Inactive Member


    Message 70 of 120 (294376)
    03-11-2006 10:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 69 by Rawel Singh
    03-11-2006 7:26 AM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    God is not in the statue
    When you are an item of creation, your ways and efforts cannot be supernatural and they must follow the natural rules of creation, which are again science only. Therefore you must use the logical scientific analysis in analysing yourself and your path to reach God. But God is beyond this creation who is the Creator. Therefore God cannot be analysed by science. When the goal is above science the scientific path cannot be meaningful because the scientific path will lead to such goal only, which can be analysed by science. For e.g.: let us take the path to Bombay, the path is on the Earth and Bombay is also on the Earth. A path that can be analysed by logic can reach the goal, which must be also analysed by the logic. If I start the journey to God and ask the path to reach Him, nobody can show the path because the God is invisible. An invisible goal will always have an invisible path. Nobody can travel in invisible path. One can show the path to a holy temple. If God exists in the statue, such path is a true path. The main purpose of reaching God is to know the whole knowledge of yourself, the correct path and the correct goal. The reason is that God is the best preacher since all the matters are related to God. Therefore the Human Incarnation is the correct place of God. The human incarnation consists of a visible human body so that the path to reach Him also becomes visible. Since God is in the human incarnation, by reaching that human body you have reached God. In fact God pervaded all over the body and you have reached the God. The God becomes visible through human body and therefore the path to reach God is also visible. The main purpose to reach God is to hear the correct version of the entire spiritual knowledge. Then through service you have to please the God. In the case of statue, it is not preaching any trace of knowledge.
    Moreover when we serve the statute it is not appearing pleased on its face. Due to these two reasons neither God is in the statute nor God is the statute (Na tasya Pratima- Veda). The statute in the human form is a model to indicate the human form of the Lord. The ignorant human beings who cannot accept the human form of the God due to egoism and jealousy can worship the statute as training for sometime to worship the human form of Lord in future (Pratimahyalpa Buddhinam- Smruti). But one should not sit in the training through out his life. If he sits in the training only, he is born as an inert object like stone (Bhutejya yanti- Gita)

    At Thy Lotus Feet
    Anil Antony
    Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 69 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-11-2006 7:26 AM Rawel Singh has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 71 by ReverendDG, posted 03-12-2006 2:08 AM dattaswami has replied
     Message 74 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-12-2006 6:41 AM dattaswami has replied

    ReverendDG
    Member (Idle past 4136 days)
    Posts: 1119
    From: Topeka,kansas
    Joined: 06-06-2005


    Message 71 of 120 (294403)
    03-12-2006 2:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 70 by dattaswami
    03-11-2006 10:19 PM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    I'm not really understanding what this means, are you speaking of paganism?
    if you are the statues and idols are a link to the god, a representation of the god/s not the god themselves
    if you are not then what is this about, could you answer it in less text please

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 70 by dattaswami, posted 03-11-2006 10:19 PM dattaswami has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 72 by dattaswami, posted 03-12-2006 2:18 AM ReverendDG has replied

    dattaswami 
    Inactive Member


    Message 72 of 120 (294404)
    03-12-2006 2:18 AM
    Reply to: Message 71 by ReverendDG
    03-12-2006 2:08 AM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    God comes in every humangeneration to preach true divine knowledge to uplift the souls. Status cannot preach you. Only Lord in human form can preach the true divine knowledge and clear all you doubts.

    At Thy Lotus Feet
    Anil Antony
    Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by ReverendDG, posted 03-12-2006 2:08 AM ReverendDG has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by ReverendDG, posted 03-12-2006 3:49 AM dattaswami has not replied

    ReverendDG
    Member (Idle past 4136 days)
    Posts: 1119
    From: Topeka,kansas
    Joined: 06-06-2005


    Message 73 of 120 (294407)
    03-12-2006 3:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 72 by dattaswami
    03-12-2006 2:18 AM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    God comes in every humangeneration to preach true divine knowledge to uplift the souls. Status cannot preach you. Only Lord in human form can preach the true divine knowledge and clear all you doubts.
    which doesn't answer my question its still more obscure preaching
    if you know anything about pagans and pagan religions,they do not worship the statue itself but the god it represents

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 72 by dattaswami, posted 03-12-2006 2:18 AM dattaswami has not replied

    Rawel Singh
    Inactive Member


    Message 74 of 120 (294412)
    03-12-2006 6:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 70 by dattaswami
    03-11-2006 10:19 PM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    I draw your attention to two things the Gita teaches on the subject. Firstly that those who worship gods and goddesses do it the wrong way. Secondly and this a confirmation of the first that worshiping gods and goddesses can get the fruits the objects of worship can give them. In the same vein Krishna says those who worship gods and goddesses get them those who worship me reach me. When anyone worships an idol it is that of a god or goddess not of God. God cannot be made into a statue and installed. Doubtless you would have noticed people competing with each other as to who has more impressive shows at Ram Lila, Krishan Janamashtami, Durga puja or Christmas. This is ego; not worshipping the One Lord who needs no such show.
    It should be appreciated that when one worships a statue it is not of God but of a deity. Most of the temples have statues of the supposed incarnations of Vishnu or goddesses. Vishnu is not God; he represents just one attribute of God namely the sustainer. God is sought to be fragmented into Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. There are separate temples for them and the followers take names after them kike Vaishnavs ans Saivites. This is ego and cause for friction. Again the incarnations of Vishnu came in different ages or Yugas, showing different attributes in Satyug, Treta,duapar and Kalyug. Does that mean God has been changing with time? No God is one Universal Entity, unchanging, ever the same. The Scriptures say that different ways of worship were prevelent in the different yugas e.g.it was the penace in Treta and Puja in Duapar. In Kalyug it is praising God. That would mean God has liked different ways in different yugas. Guru Nanak says seek refuge in the One Universe LOrd, who pervades the whole universe, does not incarnate, is unchanging and shall ever remain the same.Do not worship those who are born and are subject to death.
    God Bless
    This message has been edited by Rawel Singh, 03-12-2006 06:42 AM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 70 by dattaswami, posted 03-11-2006 10:19 PM dattaswami has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by dattaswami, posted 03-12-2006 7:27 AM Rawel Singh has not replied

    dattaswami 
    Inactive Member


    Message 75 of 120 (294421)
    03-12-2006 7:27 AM
    Reply to: Message 74 by Rawel Singh
    03-12-2006 6:41 AM


    Re: Evolution of Religious Thought
    Some people desire to become Guru (Preacher) when they fail in every business. They want to succeed in the spiritual business. Some other people have the itch to become the Guru to get the disciples around them. But, for preaching and to become a real Guru in this world there are three requirements.
    1) You should discover a better truth in the scriptures.
    2) Due to lack of knowledge of your discovery, people must be suffering already.
    3) People should get benefit on knowing your discovery.
    If these three points are satisfied preaching is meaningful and such a preacher is useful Guru (Satguru). If you can say, “here is a new method to get rid of the headache without a tablet,” you can be a Satguru and your discovery needs propagation. Such real preachers are Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhva, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Mahavir, Vivekananda, Saibaba etc.
    The second type of Guru is useless Guru who preaches, “Headache disappears if you take the medicine”. Everyone knows this. He preaches whatever is already present in books. He is wasting his time and energy. He is only a teacher but not a preacher.
    The third type of Guru is harmful Guru who preaches, “If you swallow the poison headache will disappear”. He harms the people. He does not know even the bookish knowledge. He spreads his ignorance.
    God will punish a harmful Guru. God does not punish a useless Guru, but he is wasting his time and energy just to satisfy his itch to become the Guru. Instead of wasting his lifetime like this, let him join the service to propagate the knowledge of the Lord, who came in human form (Satguru). But, jealousy and egoism hinder him to do so. He wants to become Sankaracharya and get his fame. He does not want to become a disciple of Sankaracharya who is a human being like him. He did not discover any theory like Sankaracharya but he wants to get the fame of Sankaracharya. His egoism does not allow him to become the disciple of Sankaracharya. He is very jealous at the fame of Sankaracharya. He wears the dress of Sankaracharya, and shaves his head similarly. He teaches the same theory of Sankaracharya. Then he is only a disciple of Sankaracharya but not the original Sankaracharya.
    No one is greater than Hanuman in any aspect like knowledge, devotion, power, etc.. Such Hanuman participated in the service of the Lord in human form. He did not start his own new work to uplift the world by killing some other demon and did not want to become a hero like Rama. The reason is, he does not have even a trace of jealousy and egoism. So he recognized the Lord in human form and became His servant to participate in His work. Rama became Vishnu. Hanuman became the future Brahma. Vishnu is Brahma as Veda says ”Brahmacha Narayanah’. This means Hanuman got the same position of Rama. So if you participate in the service of the Satguru you will get the same position of Satguru.
    So never be a harmful Guru. Don’t waste time and energy by becoming a useless Guru. Participate in the service of the useful Guru (Satguru) as a disciple and get the same position of that Satguru. Let every Guru and everyone who has the itch to become Guru think about my advice and do self-examination sitting alone with peaceful mind.
    THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH.

    At Thy Lotus Feet
    Anil Antony
    Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
    antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 74 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-12-2006 6:41 AM Rawel Singh has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 76 by dattaswami, posted 03-12-2006 7:31 AM dattaswami has replied

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