Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   World religions
dattaswami 
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 120 (283406)
02-02-2006 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Yaro
02-02-2006 11:21 AM


Re: Slow down...
Yaro;
The reason for the very strong obstruction in spreading the true knowledge in this world
------------------------------------------------------------
The true God comes down in human form with true knowledge and His few true devotees accompany him. These few devotees belong to His inner most circles and constitute His family. In Satyaloka (True world), He is surrounded by millions of angels and sages, who will be hearing the true knowledge from His mouth. All of them are His followers and they constantly praise Him. After some time the Lord wants some rest and He comes down to the earth along with His family. On this earth nobody recognizes Him, nobody listens Him and nobody follows Him. It is just like a big officer disgusted with the large crowd in his office goes to some foreign place along with his family, where he is not identified.
The Lord emits the true knowledge on the earth and His own family members who are in the human form will only listen and follow Him. What is the use of that drama here? Already they were His followers. The aim of this drama is to inspire the people of this world so that at least one person on the earth can become His follower. Gita says the same (Kaschitmam..). The Lord is not fond of money or fame because He is the husband of the Goddess of wealth. He is not fond of the fame, because He was bored with the fame as millions of sages and angels praise Him. When the Lord comes as preacher, He is called Satguru.
The other human beings are called as only Gurus. These Gurus are fond of money and fame. They don’t know the true knowledge. Even if they know they will not preach it because not a single person will turn to them. Infact even in the case of Satguru, same is the case but His followers who accompanied Him are turning to Him. Therefore the Guru preaches false knowledge following the psychology of ignorant people. To please the ignorant person, you must preach him strictly following his psychology. Even if you say something in addition, that should not contradict his basic psychology. For Ex: - when you preach a blind person, he will be happy if you say that there is always darkness in this world.
He will be happy since he always experiences the darkness. In addition, if you say that there is Sun on the sky, you must say that the Sun is also black. He will be happy to this additional Sun because the Sun is also black. Suppose you say that there is light in the world, he will not agree since it contradicts his experience of darkness. Suppose you establish the existence of light and the existence of illuminating Sun through powerful logic, he will become emotional and violent because your concept not only contradicts his experience, but also could not be defeated by his counter logic. It is a double blow on him. Kauravas did not concede the preaching of Lord Krishna for the same reason.
The priests for the same reason opposed the preachings of Jesus. Mohammed fought with several religious leaders for the same reason. The priests who were killing animals in the sacrifice opposed Buddha. Conservative religious leaders oppose even a true scientist. The scientist wants practical proof and logical proof. All the human incarnations never adjusted themselves to the world. They preached the true knowledge only because their aim was the future generations. One generation is nothing compared to millions and millions of generations on this earth.
When the Lord comes down as Paripurna Avatara, His devotees existing in Brahmaloka or Satyaloka come down along with Him to assist His mission. The other human incarnations are the human forms into which the power of the Lord enters. Such human incarnations are called Avataras of Kala, Amsa etc. Such incarnations are followed by the devotees existing in the lower worlds below Satyaloka, which are called as Jana Loka, Tapoloka, Maharloka etc. When the Lord Himself exists in the human body that is called Paripurna Avatara like Lord Krishna. In the case of Purnaavatara also the Lord exists but does not emit the true knowledge like Rama. The human incarnations from the upper worlds come to the earth. In the same manner the human incarnations of Saturn (Kali) also come to the earth from the lower worlds below the earth. These worlds are called as Asura Lokas, which are the abodes of demons. These lower worlds are called as intensive hells.
A soul fallen in these hells is condemned and can never return to the earth. There is a hell in the upper worlds also. Such souls, which can be rectified by punishment, will enter that hell in which the Lord is sitting in an energetic body called ”Yama’. Veda says that a soul, which harmed itself by turning towards the world, is committing the real suicide. Such soul goes to the lower permanent hells. Thus both the divine and evil forces enter the earth and fight with each other. In this Kaliyuga the strength for divine force is only one-fourth. It is like a question with multiple choice having three wrong answers and one correct answer.
Lord can destroy all the evil forces in a fraction of a second. But He allows the opposing force because both the forces are essential for a game. This world gives entertainment to the Lord like a game. Veda says that the purpose of the creation by the Lord is only the playful entertainment. Moreover, if one comes out with such multiple-choice questions, such success is real. Whatever the Lord does, it is always multi-dimensional.
Therefore, you should not be discouraged by this severe test. Your devotion and determination in the service have a real test in this Kali age. Sankara emitted the true knowledge irrespective of various opposing scholars. Finally He was killed by the black magic of Kapalikas. He died by the disease called ”Bhagandhara’, which is flow of blood. Kapalikas tried to cut His head also. But He never feared and established the true knowledge for the future generations. Similarly Jesus, Bhuddha and Mohammed. Even Swami Dayananda was killed by food poisoning, because he established the true knowledge based on Vedas and Sastras.

At Thy Lotus Feet
Anil Antony
Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Yaro, posted 02-02-2006 11:21 AM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 02-02-2006 11:48 AM dattaswami has replied
 Message 21 by Yaro, posted 02-02-2006 1:55 PM dattaswami has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 120 (283412)
02-02-2006 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by dattaswami
02-02-2006 11:37 AM


Re: Slow down...
Anil Antony lends administrative and organizational support to the National Center on Student Progress Monitoring. He has been with the American Institutes for Research since November 2002. In addition to his work on the National Center on Student Progress Monitoring, he supports the Office of Special Education Programs through his work on AIR's OSEP Multiple Award Task Order, and also contributes to the National Center for Technology Innovation, another OSEP-funded Center . Anil graduated from Dartmouth College in June 2002 with a B.A. in Environmental Studies.
Is this you, Anil? Again, we want to know you first...we can discuss the beliefs later! Tell us about Dartmouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by dattaswami, posted 02-02-2006 11:37 AM dattaswami has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by dattaswami, posted 02-02-2006 11:52 AM Phat has replied

dattaswami 
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 120 (283413)
02-02-2006 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
02-02-2006 11:48 AM


Re: Slow down...
No, i am not that famous.
I am living in india.

At Thy Lotus Feet
Anil Antony
Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 02-02-2006 11:48 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 02-02-2006 11:54 AM dattaswami has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 120 (283415)
02-02-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by dattaswami
02-02-2006 11:52 AM


Re: Slow down...
edit (You ARE in India!)
This message has been edited by Phat, 02-02-2006 09:55 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by dattaswami, posted 02-02-2006 11:52 AM dattaswami has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by AdminBrian, posted 02-02-2006 11:56 AM Phat has not replied

AdminBrian
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 120 (283416)
02-02-2006 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
02-02-2006 11:54 AM


Re: Slow down...
Nice editing phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 02-02-2006 11:54 AM Phat has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 21 of 120 (283444)
02-02-2006 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by dattaswami
02-02-2006 11:37 AM


Re: Slow down...
So, how's the weather in india? I wan't to visit one day, but I am actually a little hesitant to visit a place so foreign
Do you have any questions you would like to ask us? Any specific topics you would like to adress?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by dattaswami, posted 02-02-2006 11:37 AM dattaswami has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by dattaswami, posted 02-02-2006 2:32 PM Yaro has replied

dattaswami 
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 120 (283450)
02-02-2006 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Yaro
02-02-2006 1:55 PM


Re: Slow down...
What is your belief about God/

At Thy Lotus Feet
Anil Antony
Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Yaro, posted 02-02-2006 1:55 PM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Yaro, posted 02-02-2006 2:51 PM dattaswami has replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 23 of 120 (283452)
02-02-2006 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by dattaswami
02-02-2006 2:32 PM


Re: Slow down...
What is your belief about God
Well, personaly, I don't belive a god exists. I don't think there is such a thing.
I don't make an absolute claim, however. I am open to the possibility that there is a god, it's just that, so far, I have not seen any compelling evidence for any of the the god-concepts I have encountered. Is that clear?
This message has been edited by Yaro, 02-02-2006 02:52 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by dattaswami, posted 02-02-2006 2:32 PM dattaswami has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by dattaswami, posted 02-03-2006 10:32 AM Yaro has replied

dattaswami 
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 120 (283619)
02-03-2006 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Yaro
02-02-2006 2:51 PM


Re: Slow down...
The logic of atheists is based on perception (Pratyaksha Pramana), which was propagated by the sage Charvaka. Perception means the knowledge derived from the observation with the naked eyes. In fact in the logic (Tarka Sastra) all the means of knowledge are based on perception only. In the inference (Anumana) also, the fire on the hill is inferred by its smoke. But the relationship between the fire and smoke is perceived with the naked eyes only. Similarly other means of knowledge are also based on the perception only. Thus Charvaka forms the basic of the entire logic and without logic there is no knowledge. The statement that the God is above logic must be proved only by perception. The divine miracles performed by the human form of Lord prove that there is a power above the logic. These miracles are seen by the naked eyes. The atheists must be allowed to prove whether the miracles are simply magic tricks. When they cannot prove, they must accept the existence of super power above the logic. If they do not accept this they are contradicting their own basis, which is the perception. The divine miracles are experienced by the devotees and the experience cannot be contradicted. If the experience is contradicted, the experience of the atheists is also contradicted. Therefore atheists must be open-minded and should not be conservative. If they are conservative they have no right to criticize the religious conservatism.
The theory of Vedas and Bhagavath Gita never contradicts the perception and therefore the logic of atheists becomes the basis of the spiritual knowledge. The Lord comes in human form and this human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Even the miracles performed by demons establish the existence of super power. Therefore to convince the atheists the miracles of the Lord are not necessary. When they are convinced about the existence of the Super power (Maya), the possessor of the Super Power, the Lord, coming in human form must be also accepted because the form is seen by the naked eyes. The salvation is breakage of the bonds in this world. Since the bonds of this world exist based on the perception, the salvation is also existing based on the perception. Since the family members and the money are perceived by the eyes, the bonds with them are also perceived. Thus the salvation (Moksha) must be accepted by the atheists. A single bond with the human form of the Lord is called ”Saayujya’ or ”Kaivalya’. Since the human form is perceived, Sayujya or Kaivalya is also perceived and must be accepted by the atheists. The Bliss is derived by the devotee from the divine knowledge of the human form of the Lord. Therefore the Bliss is also true according to atheists. Thus the goal, the means to please the Lord (Sadhana) and the fruit of Sadhana (Moksha and Kaivalya) are perceived and exist in this world itself. Veda says ”Yat Saakshat Aparokshaat’, ”Pratyagatmana Maikshat’ which mean that the Lord in human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Veda also says ”Ihachet Avedeet’, which means that everything is true as seen in this world itself. This is called ”Jeevanmukthi’, which means attaining the salvation while one is alive and not after death. The salvation after the death is not true because that has no basis of perception. Thus if the atheists are little bit patient and leave their aggressive nature of criticism, they are best fitted in the true spiritual knowledge of Vedas. In fact Swami Vidyaranya included the philosophy of Charvaka in his book as one of the logical philosophies (Darsanaas).

At Thy Lotus Feet
Anil Antony
Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Yaro, posted 02-02-2006 2:51 PM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Yaro, posted 02-03-2006 10:44 AM dattaswami has replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 25 of 120 (283622)
02-03-2006 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by dattaswami
02-03-2006 10:32 AM


Re: Slow down...
ok...
So no matter what we belive, it's inevitably going to be in accordance with your 'religion'? So... what's the pont of preaching? Everybody's already got it figured out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by dattaswami, posted 02-03-2006 10:32 AM dattaswami has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by dattaswami, posted 02-03-2006 11:54 AM Yaro has not replied

dattaswami 
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 120 (283643)
02-03-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Yaro
02-03-2006 10:44 AM


Re: Slow down...
Yaro;
Lord comes in human form to propagate the divine knowledge and to uplift the people. Lord Jesus propagated the divine knowledge only. Lord Krishna preached Gita. Mohd. Prophet also preached divine knowledge. Adi Sankara also preached the divine knowledge by walking all over India 3 times.
Lord Jesus could only tell Bible. There were many human beings and priests of churches during that time. But, the preaching of Jesus are only prevailing now.
The word of Lord alone can induce bliss in you & generate love towards Him.
Like that Lord Krishna could only preach Gita. That time also many saints were there. It does mean that Lord can only tell about Himself i.e., He only Knows about Himself. This is actually the identification of Lord.
Human beings are trying to understand and sometimes may write commentaries on the word of Lord. But, how do you say that they understood the concept properly and the concepts written by them are correct?
To achieve the grace of Lord is the goal of life. One can get the grace of the Lord by serving Him when He comes in human form. This service consists of Karma Phala Tyaga (donating money for His mission) and Karma Sanyasa (spending time physically by participating), put together called SERVICE.
Ex: if I see the president of my country, what is the benefit I am going to get out of it? Just a momentary happiness. But, if I do something by which I can get his soft corner that helps me in getting some favour from him.

At Thy Lotus Feet
Anil Antony
Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Yaro, posted 02-03-2006 10:44 AM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 02-03-2006 5:17 PM dattaswami has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 120 (283690)
02-03-2006 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by dattaswami
02-03-2006 11:54 AM


Re: Slow down...
Anil writes:
Human beings are trying to understand and sometimes may write commentaries on the word of Lord. But, how do you say that they understood the concept properly and the concepts written by them are correct?
Im gonna flip your question back at you..How do you know that the concepts you are taught and have read are correct?

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by dattaswami, posted 02-03-2006 11:54 AM dattaswami has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by dattaswami, posted 02-04-2006 12:41 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 29 by dattaswami, posted 02-04-2006 12:50 AM Phat has not replied

dattaswami 
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 120 (283798)
02-04-2006 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
02-03-2006 5:17 PM


Re: Slow down...
Direction from God
The direction from God is always true. But then how to approach formless God? If you ask God, He will not reply from the sky. If you approach God in form, it must be human being only because only human form can reply. But in which human form God is present? God is present in a particular human form. Even some human beings in which, God is not present are also stating that they are God. The actual human incarnation some times is keeping silent, some times says that He is God and some times says that He is not God. Arjuna asked Krishna for direction. But Krishna may be or may not be God. Therefore, even though Krishna is preaching about the direction, Arjuna did not believe blindly. He asked questions at every stage and analysed the direction given by Krishna. Taking benefit of doubt, he considered Krishna as a human being only and discussed with Him at length and in depth. Even after seeing the vision of Viswaroopam, he continued the discussions for a long time. This means he did not give any value to vision.
Even demons can give visions. Ravana showed a vision to Rama in which he appeared killing Sita. Rama believed and wept and wanted to stop the war. But Vibhishana told Him that the vision is false and is created by the demon Ravana. Therefore, one should not decide based on the visions seen by eyes. Saturn showed a vision to Jesus in which he showed the entire world offering to Jesus. One should not believe the mind with emotion. Some times the mind is also affected by the tricks of Saturn. When Rama went to catch the golden deer Sita heard the voice of Rama crying for help. Sita decided that Rama was in danger. But Lakshmana gave the argument that Rama can never be in danger. Finally Sita was proved wrong and Lakshmana was correct. Therefore, emotional mind will mislead but not the logical and analytical knowledge of the brain.
Hanuman thought of committing suicide when Sita was not found in Lanka. But He analysed and dropped the idea. Therefore, logical and analytical knowledge and discussion can alone give the correct direction. In the beginning of Gita, Krishna told “Dadami Buddhiyogam Te . . ” which means that only by logical analysis of brain, God can be achieved. After achieving God, logic must be closed and the heart must be opened. Sankra also told “Jnanaadeva Tu Kaivalyam . .” which means that only through divine knowledge one can achieve God. After achieving God, devotion and service will come. One cannot achieve God through devotion, because unless you recognise the correct form of God, how can you devote yourself to that form? You must select one girl through analysis and fix her as wife and then only love her and serve her. How can you fix the best girl without analysis?
At the time of Jesus priests were there who always think that old is gold and past is the last word. They hate the present. They have no logic. When they arrested Jesus, there were no proper discussions and logical analysis about His case. When there were no logical discussions, He was crucified based on simple emotional slogans. His death was not justified and therefore He rose and walked out. When the soldier was leaving finally, he pierced the stomach of Jesus with his weapon. Then blood came out. Blood will not come out from dead body. Jesus was alive and He was brought down by His disciples. Then He was kept in the cave. He knew the protection of His life. He walked into India and met the king Salivahana and talked with him. His conversation was recorded in “Bhavishaya Purana” of Vyasa. This scripture speaks about the future. Vyasa wrote this long back. The verse in scripture is “Esa Putram Cha Mam Viddhi, Kumari Garbha Sambhavam, Mlechcha Dharmasya Vaktaram . ..”, which means “I am the son of the father of heaven. I was born to unmarried girl. I preached spirituality to Muslims”. Thus spoke Jesus to Salivahana. He stayed in India till He attained the age of eighty-five years and died in Kashmir. You can find the buried tomb of Jesus there even today. On the tomb it is written “Jesus” in Hebrew language. Jesus disappeared from home at the age of 16 years. He returned at the age of 30 years. He was crucified in 32nd year. From 16th year He was in Himalayas in the association of several sages. He was a good Sanskrit scholar. He studied all the Hindu philosophy and this is the reason why the Christian and Hindu philosophies are almost similar in concepts. Krishna told that He is God. Jesus told that He and His Father are one and the same. Krishna told that He would come whenever there is necessity. Jesus told that He would come again. Krishna told that He is the only ultimate goal. Jesus told that one could attain God through Him only. All these are same concepts.
There is difference between God in human form and human being posing as God. To differentiate both, analysis is essential like in the separation of original diamond from artificial diamond. Once you select the original diamond, no need of further analysis and you can kiss and love the diamond. Krishna was God in human form and Paundraka Vasudeva was human being posing as God. Krishna told Bhagavat Gita and the latter could not preach any knowledge. Except this difference, external dress and doing miracles were common in both.
The priests believed the dead messengers and did not believe the then alive messenger. Jesus told, “ Let the dead bury dead”. This means the priests were dead because they always lived in the past and never in the present. Those who live in past are dead and those who live in the present are alive. This means that the dead priests will attend the dead messengers and the living disciples will attend the present living messenger. When Jesus told that He would come again, that means the human incarnation will come again for every next generation. Therefore, Christianity believes in the human incarnation that comes every time as in Hinduism. There is no difference between the two philosophies. The human incarnations of all the religions tell always the same point. The followers do not take the right interpretation and mock the other religion. The Christians criticize Krishna and Mohammed for killing the evil people. They say that Jesus changed all the evil people also through love. Then why the people crucified Him? Why they did not change by His love? Why Christianity suggests the permanent hell for sinners after enquiry? If love can change every body, there should not be hell at all! Jesus told that it is better to punish yourself instead of falling into hell permanently. Therefore, he was indicating the punishment and hell. He is never against the punishment of evil people. The L.K.G. students cannot be controlled by speech like college students. They need a strong cane for discipline. The followers always misinterpret their original preachers. Krishna tried His best to change Kauravas but as a last resort only, He punished them. Similarly, Mohammed fought as last resort only. In fact Mohammed was the incarnation “ Kalki” who killed evil people with a sword riding on the horse. Krishna is Buddha while preaching Gita. He was Jesus when He showed kindness on Sudama and Draupadi.
He was Mohammad in killing the demons. For protecting the good people (Pandavas) and for punishing Kauravas, He was cursed by Gandhari because of which, He died by the arrow shot on His foot. This is crucification only for the sake of good people like Pandavas. Both died shedding the blood. He took the punishment on Him to protect the real devotees like Pandavas. Krishna and Jesus were born in the similar situations. Devil people killed the children born on their birth dates. Krishna left Brindavanam when He was 16 year old. Similarly Jesus. Krishna met Gopikas again on the seashore at His age of 30 years. Similarly Jesus returned to home at the same age. Jesus quoted several scriptures of Hinduism, which were filtered from the Bible.

At Thy Lotus Feet
Anil Antony
Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 02-03-2006 5:17 PM Phat has not replied

dattaswami 
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 120 (283799)
02-04-2006 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
02-03-2006 5:17 PM


Re: Slow down...
Purpose of human life
In the materialistic plane one person says that the aim of his life is to achieve a particular post and then help his family members. Some other person says that the aim of his life is to serve the mankind. We appreciate the second aim as higher than the first one. The highest aim of the human life can be known only in the spiritual plane. The sole aim of this creation is pleasing God through the entertainment. Every human being is a part of the creation and so the same aim applies to every human being also. The human being becomes fruitful if it serves the Lord and pleases the Lord through the service. Service means the sacrifice of work and sacrifice of the fruit of the work. Service is the proof of the real love. The mother serves her child by sacrificing lot of work like giving bath, dressing etc., for years together continuously. The father serves the child by sacrificing the fruit of all his hard work to the child. It is a clear practical point that the proof of the real love is only service. If you serve your family you love your family. If you serve the entire world you love the creation. If you serve the creator, you love the creator. It is a very simple point.
Love is the attraction of mind towards anybody or anything. When the illness attacks the body you take so much care to serve your body. You love your body. Similarly you serve your father, mother, wife and children because your mind is attracted towards them. What is the first pre-requisite for this love? When you love your child, you are aware that a particular small living being is your child and you have the differentiating knowledge of your child from other children who are similar. Similarly, when you love God you must be aware of the form of God, who must be differentiated from other forms as your child is differentiated from other children. You are identifying your child by certain special characteristics like shape of the face, voice etc; you are not recognizing your child by the clothes, which it puts on. Other children put on such clothes also. Similarly, you must distinguish the Creator from the creation and then only love the creator. You cannot love the entire creation as the creator. Do you love all the children as your own children? Therefore, the pre-requisite of love is the true knowledge and the inseparable identifying characteristics of an object by which you get attracted towards it. Therefore, what is the real form of God? And how it differs from other forms? What are the inseparable identifying characteristics of God? The answers for these questions constitute the detailed true knowledge of God. Only such true knowledge generates attraction and love. When you know the separate special details of Bombay, which are not seen in any other city, then only you are attracted to Bombay and like to see it.
Before proceeding to the identifying true knowledge of God, you must also know the purpose of your attraction towards an object. You love your child, and there is no purpose in it. You also love a doctor when you are ill. But that love is not real. It is not love at all. It is only artificial apparent love exhibited for a purpose. You want the doctor to help you. Therefore, true love is that when there is no purpose in it. False love is that in which purpose is present. Generally almost all the people love God because God is omni-potent. He has miraculous powers to do anything, which is impossible for any body on this earth. When a problem comes and when one fails to solve it by all the means existing in this world, one starts loving God to solve that unique problem. Therefore, you love the position or power of God and not the God. A poet shows lot of love and appreciation on a king in his spontaneous poetry because the poet loves the power and the wealth of the king. He expects the king to donate some land or to give him some money after being pleased with his poems. The poet does not love the person who is the king. He loves the king only. Will he write the same poems if the king looses his kingdom and becomes a beggar? In his poetry the poet praised that the king is very beautiful with sweet voice and infinite wisdom. These qualities still remain with the king even if he has become the beggar. But the poet does not praise the same qualities of that beggar because the beggar cannot donate anything to him. The post of the king and the kingdom are separable characteristics, whereas the qualities are inseparable characteristics. You can easily identify the person by these inseparable characteristics and if your love on Him is real, you will love him whether he is a king or a beggar.
Are you not loving your son and praise him whether he serves you or not? Sita garlanded and married Rama who will be the future king of Ayodhya. The love of Sita may be on Rama only or may be on the kingdom of Ayodhya for which she can become queen or may be both put together. Rama tested her love by discarding the kingdom and by going to the forest. Sita followed Rama to the forest. Her love was only on Rama and not on the kingdom. Ravana further tested this. Ravana offered her to become the queen. But she refused. Therefore, the love on God should be analyzed and should be decided whether God is loved or His omni-potent miraculous power is loved for our advantage. Some people want to take advantage in this world and some others want to take the advantage in the upper world so that they can be protected from the hell. In both cases the love on God is not true. It is only the love on his associated power. Sankara says that the true love on God should not have any desire related to this world or to the upper world (Ihaamutra Phala Viragah). If the love is on the power of the God only what is the use of the real form of God or the inseparable characteristics of the God? The poet loves anybody as the king.
For him anybody on the thrown is beautiful and is very wise. In such case if the king donates the desired land or cash by seeing the poem written by a poet, the poet does not bother to see or talk with the king. Therefore, when we love God’s power for some advantage, we need not worry about His form or in seeing or talking with God. You can just chant the prayers. He responds to your prayers and your desire is fulfilled. In such case one need not see the God and the God also does not want to see his or her bloody face.
When a mother wants to see her child, she is not thinking about any advantage out of it. In fact the mother presents some cash to the son as a gift and if the son needs, she will even sell all her jewels and sacrifice for the sake of her son. Similarly, if the person is having true love on God, that person wants to see God not for any advantage, but even at the cost of disadvantage. For such person only God appears and such person only can see, talk, touch and can even live along with the God. For such persons only there is need of the enquiry of the real form of God.
The real form of God is unimaginable as said in Vedas and there is no question of seeing or talking or touching the God. Gita also says that nobody can know God (Mam tu Veda Na..). Such unimaginable God cannot be said to have a form or formless. The Creator is beyond the creation, which is a four-dimensional network of space and time along with matter and energy. The creation contains both formless items like space, energy and air and also formful items like water, earth etc. If you say God as formful or formless, then God becomes a part of the creation and not beyond the creation. Veda says that no item in the creation including the pure awareness or life energy is God (Neti, Neti . ). But there are real devotees who have real love towards God and want to see, touch, talk and live along with God for no selfish advantage either in this or in the upper world. The God who has infinite kindness and infinite love cannot reject such real love.
The God is omni-potent and can satisfy the desire of such real devotees and the real devotees are crying for such fortune of vision etc. The God is capable and the devotee deserves. Nobody can put his finger between these two. To satisfy the real devotees God comes in human form and all these four fortunes are blessed upon the real devotees. If God comes in the form of space or energy, which is formless or in the form of statues, He cannot grant these fortunes. He can talk, touch and live with the devotees when He comes in the human form only. Only the human body can do such things as per laws of nature. The nature is His creation and the laws of nature are the rules of His own administration. He will not violate these rules except in the case of inevitable emergency. Why should He use His special power (Maya) and talk or touch or live with you in the form of space or energy or statues? When the purpose is served through the normal routine, why are you so rigid about the abnormal way? God need not heed to the foolish rigid behaviour of some human beings.
Infact they want to pray the formless God or God in the form of a statue for the sake of their selfish convenience only. You can offer food to formless God or statue and then you can eat the entire food. You are satisfied as if you have given meals to God and at the same time not even a grain of rice is lost. There are many inconvenient losses and troubles with the human form of God. But the real devotees are not worried about such loss and infact they are happy to loose if God can enjoy by that. They feel happy when God eats that food. The mother visits her son and pays him some cash. When the son is happy with that she derives infinite happiness and does not feel it as a loss or trouble. The mother will stay with her son and serve him day and night if necessary and feels very happy about it.
Similarly, these real devotees feel happy to serve the Lord and they are happy about the loss incurred in it.
Lord came to the human form as Krishna for the sake of Gopikas only and not for others. Only Gopikas could recognize Him and served the Lord by offering butter and they felt happy in such sacrifice. They did not feel such sacrifice as loss. Krishna was not their child. But they loved Him more than their children. They did not give butter even to their own children and offered it to the Lord. Their love to God crossed even their love to their children. When such real love exists, God comes in human form and reveals His identity to you. Your love must be real and must be practically proved by the sacrifice of work (Karma Sanyasa) and sacrifice of fruit of work (Karma Phala Tyaga) as emphasized in Gita.
Sacrifice of words, mind and intelligence, which are freely supplied to you by God is like offering drinking water to the guest, which was freely supplied by the municipality. But sacrifice of work and fruit of work are like offering the meals to the guest and it is sacrifice of your hard-earned money. Of-course the meals must be associated with drinking water also and at the same time mere drinking water is almost nothing. Sacrifice becomes complete, which is the complete proof of your real love only, when you sacrifice mind, words, intelligence, work and fruit of work. Sacrifice of words is prayer and sacrifice of mind is meditation, sacrifice of intelligence is the spiritual discussion. Therefore, meditation alone is the sacrifice of the mind i.e., supplied freely by God. Sacrifice of anything, which is hard earned by your work, is the real main sacrifice.
When the Lord exposes Himself as the source of all infinite super natural powers, all the people will run to Him with same speed and will sacrifice to their maximum. In such case you cannot differentiate the real devotee from a fraud devotee. The reason is that the super natural power attracts all the people with equal force. When acids are dissolved in water they show equal strengths because water being high polar solvent attracts the hydrogen ions from all acids equally so that their extent of ionization becomes same. The strong acid cannot be differentiated from a weak acid. This is called as leveling effect. When the same acids are dissolved in glacial acetic acid, which is a weak solvent, the acids will ionize to different extent as per their inherent nature. When an official asks for some amount of money, all the merchants will run to him with equal speed and give that amount.
In this case you cannot differentiate the real donor from the real greedy merchant. But when a beggar begs for some money, a real donor donates whereas a greedy person refuses. The real nature of the individuals comes out in the case of the beggar only. Similarly, when God comes in human form and exhibits the super natural powers all the people rush to Him with equal speeds and show equal love on God. Even if God recognizes the real devotee by His power and rewards him, the other devotees will find fault with the God. They will argue that even though the extent of devotion is equal, the Lord showed partiality. Therefore, God in human form will not exhibit miracles and will exhibit only His inseparable special knowledge, which projects Him as Guru only and not Bhagavan. Datta means God donated to the devotees in human form. His right half is Guru and the left half is Bhagavan. The right half is only projected and the left half is hidden. In such case only the real devotees can be filtered.
It is easy to approach the human incarnation and praise Him as God. But the most important part is to retain the same faith through out the life. When Datta becomes inconvenient in practical way the faith should persist. The faith should be practical and permanent. The recognition of human incarnation must be done with the help of the sacred scriptures like Vedas, Brahma sutras and Gita. You must take a long time to decide the human incarnation. Once you have decided you must stick to that in spite of all the troubles and inconvenience, which you face practically. There is no use of catching somebody in haste and then withdraw by the next day. You will continue like this through out your life. Therefore, you must study all the scriptures and be thorough with the divine knowledge, which generates the devotion or love. If your devotion is real you must prove it by your service. The real love is only one-way traffic. Attaining the God, seeing Him and talking with Him are useless.
Demons have seen and talked with God by doing long penance. What is the use of it? They were finally destroyed. Even if you don’t see or talk with God, if you please Him through your proven real love, you are blessed. Rama never saw Lord Siva. But He was blessed. Ravana saw and talked with Siva, but was destroyed. Therefore, pleasing the Lord should be our final aim and not mere vision or conversation.
If your aim is only to solve your problem in this world or in the upper world or in both, you have nothing to do with the formless God or form of God. Your work is done when you pray for it sincerely. But mind that your sincerity is not on God but it is on the solution of your problem. God in a temporary way only does the solution for your problems, which is not good for you in the long run. He postpones your bad results and brings your good results from the future births. By this, you have to enjoy the results of the deeds, which you have done and you cannot enjoy the results of the deeds, which you have not done. It is like sending your application to the officer through a peon paying the necessary amount and getting back the application with the signature of the officer. You have nothing to do with the personality or qualities of the officer. But when a girl loves the officer, she likes to see the personality and know about his qualities. His position as an officer is only one of the several aspects. Often, she neglects this aspect of the post, when the personality and qualities attracted her. Similarly, a real devotee feels happy by knowing the details of God and he is not worried about the benefit from the God. In such case, the Lord enjoys the bad results of that real devotee and gives him eternal happiness.
Some people are not bothered about God and go on doing the worldly works continuously. They believe in themselves only. Such people are either athiests or just neglect the God. But the so-called devotees also do not love the God really. They show false love on God and all their real love is only in the solutions of their problems. They want to visit the Lord and try to show their anxiety about the personality of the Lord. All that is only to please the Lord who may be helpful in the future problems. These devotees are also not better than those atheists in any way. But the Lord allows these devotees because there is a hope of change in their attitude and become the real devotees. Prahlada was always absorbed in the personality of the Lord and did not ask for any help even in the torture. He was only remembering the Lord in such situation. Hanuman served the Lord Rama not for any gift in return. In fact when Sita gave the chain of pearls, He broke those pearls to see Rama in those pearls. Rama never announced the gift given to Hanuman and Hanuman never aspired for any gift. Rama gave the post of creator of this world and the matter was not revealed to anybody. By revealing that, Rama never wanted to pose Himself as the Lord. Hanuman was not even aware of that post because His mind was only on the personality of Rama. Similarly, Radha never aspired for any thing and she was given a special top most world (Goloka).
Arjuna had partial devotion and therefore, the final fruit was partly happiness and partly misery. Duryodhana invited Lord Krishna for a big feast in His honour. Krishna never attended it and finally destroyed them. All the respect and love shown by Duryodhana were only to exploit Lord Krishna in the war. When Krishna was found useless for him, he was angry with Krishna and tried to chain Him. This shows that he did not even recognize Krishna as the Lord. Therefore, the Lord gives vision, conversation and co-living etc., only for the real devotees who do not aspire anything in return. The worst devotees want practical fruits from the Lord by serving Him through words, feelings and intellectual discussions. The middle class devotees sacrifice practically for the Lord and aspire practical results in return. These types of devotees are businessmen and the above type of devotees are prostitutes. A businessman invests some amount and tries to get back more amounts in return. A prostitute tries to earn the amount from a person without investing any amount and investing only sweet words, sweet feelings and artificial discussions. The last type of devotees serves the Lord practically and do not aspire any result from the Lord either theoretically or practically. For such devotees only the Lord comes in human form and gives His experience to them and save them in this and as well as in the upper world.

At Thy Lotus Feet
Anil Antony
Universal Spirituality | Shri Datta Swami
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 02-03-2006 5:17 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by AdminPhat, posted 02-04-2006 3:29 AM dattaswami has replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 30 of 120 (283803)
02-04-2006 1:43 AM


less monologue, more dialogue
Dude,
Do you notice that we ask you like a 1 or 2 sentance question, then you reply with like an encyclopedia?
No one is gonna slog thrugh all that stuff. I patiently went thrugh one or two, but enugh already!
Try and slow down and introduce one point at a time.
Please.
Start by formulating a topic NO MORE than 3 sentances long. If you can do that, then we can progress... otherwise... well... no one will understand (or want to understand) what you are on about.

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by dattaswami, posted 02-04-2006 2:09 AM Yaro has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024