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Author Topic:   Some help for the TC model
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 16 of 84 (7713)
03-24-2002 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by nator
03-24-2002 7:42 AM


quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
AAAAAhhh!!!
Please!....no....more....math.....
Aaaaahhhh...gurgle....thump.

JM: Yes, those pesky details get in the way of an otherwise perfect hypothesis!
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by nator, posted 03-24-2002 7:42 AM nator has not replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 84 (7744)
03-24-2002 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Joe Meert
03-22-2002 11:52 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe Meert:
[B]1)JM:Average age; however, it falls out of the integration; note the 1/tau term outside the integral will factor into the integration because the integration is done from 0 to tau.
2)JM: kappa=K/pc ....It has units of length^2/time, but the K (thermal conductivity) tells you its related to how far/fast heat diffuses. Does that help? It is not a constant (hint: this is a term that will cause TC fits when he starts to model).
[B][/QUOTE]
1)Sorry I`m still not getting how t is average age instead of tau....
Could you work through a brief example for me please?
2)Hmmm k[Kg.m/K.s3] so to end up with Kappa [m2/s] pc needs units [Kg/K.m.s2]...
Ok i`ll bite Joe what is pc?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Joe Meert, posted 03-22-2002 11:52 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Joe Meert, posted 03-24-2002 10:48 PM joz has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 18 of 84 (7746)
03-24-2002 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by joz
03-24-2002 10:09 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
1)Sorry I`m still not getting how t is average age instead of tau....
Could you work through a brief example for me please?
2)Hmmm k[Kg.m/K.s3] so to end up with Kappa [m2/s] pc needs units [Kg/K.m.s2]...
Ok i`ll bite Joe what is pc?

JM: Tau, is average age. Sorry, thought that was clear. During integration, the solution is
2/3t3/2 evaluated from 0 to tau. the final expression looks the same as I gave earlier except the integral is removed and the expression is multiplied by 1/tau (means the final tau is tau1/2 and the constant is 4/3.
pc= is actually rho* c....Rho=density and has units of kg/m3. c is specific heat and has units of Joules/kg*C. Now, to anticipate your next question, joules are kg*m2/s2....cancelling all you get
kappa = kg*m2 * m3 * sec2*oC / m * oC * sec3*kg*m2
if i've copied this correctly, you get kappa= m2/sec
[This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 03-24-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by joz, posted 03-24-2002 10:09 PM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by joz, posted 03-25-2002 12:39 AM Joe Meert has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 84 (7760)
03-25-2002 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Joe Meert
03-24-2002 10:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Joe Meert:
1)JM: Tau, is average age. Sorry, thought that was clear. During integration, the solution is
2/3t3/2 evaluated from 0 to tau. the final expression looks the same as I gave earlier except the integral is removed and the expression is multiplied by 1/tau (means the final tau is tau1/2 and the constant is 4/3.
2)pc= is actually rho* c....Rho=density and has units of kg/m3. c is specific heat and has units of Joules/kg*C. Now, to anticipate your next question, joules are kg*m2/s2....cancelling all you get
kappa = kg*m2 * m3 * sec2*oC / m * oC * sec3*kg*m2
if i've copied this correctly, you get kappa= m2/sec

1)Okey doke... If tau`s average age it makes sense it was the confusion over whether it (average age) was t or tau that got me....
2)I was thinking p might be a rho but I figured it would be easier to ask.....
Sorry about all the pesky details Joe....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Joe Meert, posted 03-24-2002 10:48 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 12:41 AM joz has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 20 of 84 (7761)
03-25-2002 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by joz
03-25-2002 12:39 AM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
1)Okey doke... If tau`s average age it makes sense it was the confusion over whether it (average age) was t or tau that got me....
2)I was thinking p might be a rho but I figured it would be easier to ask.....
Sorry about all the pesky details Joe....

No problem, now go plug them and test them!
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by joz, posted 03-25-2002 12:39 AM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by joz, posted 03-25-2002 1:02 AM Joe Meert has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 84 (7766)
03-25-2002 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Joe Meert
03-25-2002 12:41 AM


Ok so the units of alpav are [K-1]?
If so I think I understand the equation....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 12:41 AM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 1:14 AM joz has not replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 22 of 84 (7770)
03-25-2002 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by joz
03-25-2002 1:02 AM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
Ok so the units of alpav are [K-1]?
If so I think I understand the equation....

JM: Yes, the units are 1/temp
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by joz, posted 03-25-2002 1:02 AM joz has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 84 (7780)
03-25-2002 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Joe Meert
03-22-2002 8:27 PM


Meert, is there an area on the internet explaining the equation or must I ask you questions on variable expression (I don't think I need the calc or physics explained, I believe, though the [numerical] input is where I need assistance).
------------------
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 03-25-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Joe Meert, posted 03-22-2002 8:27 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 7:38 AM TrueCreation has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 24 of 84 (7786)
03-25-2002 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by TrueCreation
03-25-2002 4:18 AM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
Meert, is there an area on the internet explaining the equation or must I ask you questions on variable expression (I don't think I need the calc or physics explained, I believe, though the input is where I need assistance).

JM: Well, you told me you and I were at the same level of understanding. Is that assumption now incorrect?
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by TrueCreation, posted 03-25-2002 4:18 AM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by TrueCreation, posted 03-25-2002 1:30 PM Joe Meert has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 84 (7814)
03-25-2002 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Joe Meert
03-25-2002 7:38 AM


"JM: Well, you told me you and I were at the same level of understanding. Is that assumption now incorrect?"
--If I might quote myself from another thread:
quote:
...as for my assertion that basically 'were on the same level' with Joe, It was not meant in the context as everyone is refering. I interpereted Joe's post as that it seemed he believed there are spreading centers taking place on continents producing new continental mass(If this were so, it would have been quite an ignorance of geology), which I did not think that he thought. So I asserted that I was on the same level as he in this question. I am most sertaintly not on the same level 'period' with him.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 7:38 AM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 1:46 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 26 of 84 (7816)
03-25-2002 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by TrueCreation
03-25-2002 1:30 PM


quote:
...as for my assertion that basically 'were on the same level' with Joe, It was not meant in the context as everyone is refering. I interpereted Joe's post as that it seemed he believed there are spreading centers taking place on continents producing new continental mass(If this were so, it would have been quite an ignorance of geology), which I did not think that he thought. So I asserted that I was on the same level as he in this question. I am most sertaintly not on the same level 'period' with him.
JM: What do you think is happening in the East African rift? The Rio grande rift? Actually, I don't know how you concluded that this is what I was talking about, but so be it. The East African rift has added some mass to the continents (Kilimanjaro and Mt. Kenya come to mind), so rifting can add mass to continents (contrary to your suggestion)....however that is an aside. Are you now saying that you cannot answer the questions I posed? I don't know of any internet site with these equations. The symbols are all defined along with their units in this thread as is the solution to the integral so you should have at it.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by TrueCreation, posted 03-25-2002 1:30 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by TrueCreation, posted 03-25-2002 2:15 PM Joe Meert has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 84 (7820)
03-25-2002 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Joe Meert
03-25-2002 1:46 PM


"JM: What do you think is happening in the East African rift? The Rio grande rift?"
--Continents are diverging. Soon there will be another ocean in the East African Rift (the Red sea I belive), not a continent.
"Actually, I don't know how you concluded that this is what I was talking about, but so be it."
--Different posts such as these entertained my interpretation which was incorrect:
quote:
Secondly, TC has a rather myopic view of magnetism that is focused solely on the intensity fluctuations on the ocean floor. He ignores all the physics behind the reversals and the ocean floor structure itself and the corroborating sections on land. It needs to be hammered into his head that if he wants his hypothesis to be taken seriously, he must develop a coherent hypothesis that fits all the observations, but I think his main goal is simply to argue without regard to the details.
quote:
Sorry, but I don't follow your logic. Remember, the polarity stratigraphy is corroborated from land and sediment records. You need to include the land record in your model
"The East African rift has added some mass to the continents (Kilimanjaro and Mt. Kenya come to mind), so rifting can add mass to continents (contrary to your suggestion)....however that is an aside."
--I am aware, my interpretation of your previous assertions was that it adds continental mass just as it adds mass to sea-floor, a different 'addition of mass' mechenism.
"Are you now saying that you cannot answer the questions I posed?"
--I didn't assert this, I asserted that I would need some questions answered on variable input, possibly if I could see an example of the equation.
"I don't know of any internet site with these equations. The symbols are all defined along with their units in this thread as is the solution to the integral so you should have at it."
--So you will not bite my head off if I am to ask questions? Some of them were answered by you and Joz.
------------------
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 03-25-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 1:46 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 2:21 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 28 of 84 (7822)
03-25-2002 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by TrueCreation
03-25-2002 2:15 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"JM: What do you think is happening in the East African rift? The Rio grande rift?"
--Continents are diverging. Soon there will be another ocean in the East African Rift (the Red sea I belive), not a continent.
"Actually, I don't know how you concluded that this is what I was talking about, but so be it."
--Different posts such as these entertained my interpretation which was incorrect:
"The East African rift has added some mass to the continents (Kilimanjaro and Mt. Kenya come to mind), so rifting can add mass to continents (contrary to your suggestion)....however that is an aside."
--I am aware, my interpretation of your previous assertions was that it adds continental mass just as it adds mass to sea-floor, a different 'addition of mass' mechenism.
"Are you now saying that you cannot answer the questions I posed?"
--I didn't assert this, I asserted that I would need some questions answered on variable input, possibly if I could see an example of the equation.
"I don't know of any internet site with these equations. The symbols are all defined along with their units in this thread as is the solution to the integral so you should have at it."
--So you will not bite my head off if I am to ask questions? Some of them were answered by you and Joz.

JM: Not at all, but that in itself leads to some issues. You have presented a half-cocked hypothesis on a subject (which you now admit) you don't understand fully. Most of us try to understand something before we present foolish ideas. Just about everything you've presented with regard to geology has been naively incorrect and inconsistent. That is because you don't know the topic well enough yet to make reasoned arguments. Work on answering the questions I posed here and explain why the oceans today are more than 50 meters deep when your hypothesis predicts that the oceans would only be ~50 meters deep.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by TrueCreation, posted 03-25-2002 2:15 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Joe Meert, posted 03-26-2002 1:53 PM Joe Meert has replied
 Message 31 by TrueCreation, posted 03-29-2002 1:50 AM Joe Meert has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 29 of 84 (7880)
03-26-2002 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Joe Meert
03-25-2002 2:21 PM


pushing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Joe Meert, posted 03-25-2002 2:21 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Joe Meert, posted 03-27-2002 7:54 AM Joe Meert has not replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 30 of 84 (7901)
03-27-2002 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Joe Meert
03-26-2002 1:53 PM


Off to KU for the weekend. Will watch for a reply.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Joe Meert, posted 03-26-2002 1:53 PM Joe Meert has not replied

  
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