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Author Topic:   Changes at EvC Forum
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 191 (450895)
01-24-2008 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
01-24-2008 2:50 PM


Changes
It isn't reasonable to have just one moderator, and I think one or two more are required.
I'm not really sure of what has transpired that prompted you to make such a radical decision. Regardless, I'll support you in your decision.
This works out to my favor since I have found out the hard way that moderating is not a fun thing -- necessary, but not fun. I guess Jar was right all along.
However, you are going to need help though. There is no way you are going to be able to do this on your own. I would suggest yourself, AdminMoose, AdminPD, and AdminModulous, if they are willing to accept.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Admin, posted 01-24-2008 2:50 PM Admin has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 191 (450942)
01-25-2008 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by arachnophilia
01-25-2008 12:57 AM


Great post
Well, that pretty much says it all...
You know, this may just be another internet forum. But EvC really is the best forum I have ever seen. I have tried to find other forums that match the format, the layout, the administration, the members, the intellect, etc, etc, etc... I can't find one comparable anywhere.
It would be a real shame to see it go. And make no mistake, the writing is on the wall. It is dying. In keeping with the spirit of the forum, if we don't evolve right now, this place will die.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by arachnophilia, posted 01-25-2008 12:57 AM arachnophilia has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 191 (450990)
01-25-2008 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Admin
01-25-2008 9:38 AM


Re: As We Move Forward
1. Discussion of creation/evolution topics was declining in terms of both volume and quality. Those who remember Peter Borger, Tranquility Base and TrueCreation know what I'm talking about, particularly regarding quality.
I know that, just as the name of the forum suggests, you would like for creation/evolution topics to be the focal point. But it isn't. So we should figure out why that is.
Fewer and fewer creationists are in existence now. Of those that do exist, the newer creationists haven't the quality that you would expect since the absence of TrueCreation, Tranquility Base, Peter Borger, etc.
Though I am not a creationist, I still fit somewhere in this category in that I see serious discrepencies in the widely held field of evolution. I also believe that Intelligent Design makes great arguments in its stead. Despite that, my interest in the debate has waned considerably over the years. I know that you would prefer that people such as myself engage more in these kinds of topics, but my heart is just not in it.
I find much more interest in the social implications of these topics rather than the science itself. This is a little disheartening for me, since I was very interested in it at one time. I can't really pinpoint why it has begun to bore me.
With that said, if some kind of compromise can be made in the future, I would be willing to take one for the team and attempt to rededicate myself to the debate for the sake of the forum.
The greater point that I think may be the issue is that the debate may just be over. If evolutionists sought to defeat creationism, they may have already done so. And it ends up being a case of having received what you asked for (the demise of creation), only to realize that in the end that you don't like the outcome (the demise of creation), because now it forces us to abandon the very premise of the forum.
2. Dissension over non-creation/evolution topics, such as gay issues, was rising.
By noticing what threads you participate in versus what you don't participate in, I see that the other threads about religion and social topics bore you. If I were a betting man, I would say that in many ways you probably regret having ever made those forums since it tends to detract from the focal point.
But like it or not, that is your money-maker right now. Gotta go with what is generating revenue.
In a sense EvC Forum has repeated the history of some of the hippie communes of the 1960's. Begun with great enthusiasm and expectations, after a while they all succumbed to the realities of life: medical care, law enforcement, sanitation, finances, etc., not to mention that people change as they get older, and the firmest friendships somehow decay into embittered animosities.
Very true. I like the analogy.
But EvC Forum is not real life, it's just a discussion board
Yes, but EvC does provide a venue for people to let out some of their thoughts. And for countless others, this is a place where entire worldviews take form -- hundreds of lurkers a day. I don't think we should take that lightly, as it comes with great responsibility. We tend to treat it as a game. I fully implicate myself in that. But it really isn't. There are serious things we discuss in here, and we could potentially be helping or hindering countless people.
Is there any other place where we discuss at length the kind of things we talk about in the forum? Would you ever really strike up a conversation at this length with some random person? Sure, it occasionally happens at real coffee house, or at churches, or when a group of friends come over to your house for dinner, or at a bar where drunken dialogue takes form through the lessening of inhibitions.
But the forum provides a level of anonymity, where we can let it all hang out without having to deal with the body language of one's opponent. In that way, it may be better than real life because people that ordinarily are reserved and introverted get to express themselves and their deepest thoughts, without having the silver-tongued bully control the dialogue in their favor, not on the basis of the strength of their argument, but on the basis that they have been bestowed greater oratory skills.
Its like Hovind. You may think he's a complete crackpot. But like it or not, he has won every debate I've ever seen him engage in. That doesn't necessarily mean that his position is right, it means that he has come prepared and that he is naturally predisposed to it.
Forums like Coffee House enable us to develop and maintain a sense of community, and threads that prove divisive can just be closed.
I hope that you never take away the Coffee House. Its your money-maker.
I hope to gradually grow the moderator team again over time.
But only for your own sanity and because a strong, impartial moderating team has a better chance of ubiquity than one man alone who has to pour through millions of words a day. It would be anarchy without it.
In the event that you do start to bring them back, may I suggest the reopening of the Moderation threads? As Arach has shared, it is a checks and balance system. It gives those that don't have a voice the chance for an appeal.
With that said, I have seen some members make their plea and where the Admin and the member go back and forth multiple times. Ultimately, the Admin has the final say. We should come up with a way to limit that. But taking it away completely seems equally destructive. We just need to find a balance.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Admin, posted 01-25-2008 9:38 AM Admin has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 191 (451123)
01-26-2008 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by arachnophilia
01-25-2008 4:25 PM


Re: [forum=-15] Restored to Life
Thirded

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 01-25-2008 4:25 PM arachnophilia has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 191 (451128)
01-26-2008 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Admin
01-25-2008 6:48 PM


Re: Brief Answers
the board will no longer be entertaining member/moderator discussion threads. The moderation threads are clear evidence that it rarely resolves anything, and it turns moderators into targets.
I disagree. Let me lay out a plan for your (dis)approval and tell me what you think:
I think the Moderator forum was a great idea. Moderators were hand picked because they are supposed to embody the kind of impartiality that is required, regardless of how they may personally feel about a matter. And I thought we had a pretty good team that didn't exploit their position.
But not everyone is a Moderator. Regardless, they deserve to have a voice to make an appeal as a test for equity since Moderators are not infallible. So while the Moderator may have the final say, and I believe they reserve that right, the People still have a right to voice their concerns to a Moderator which might allow the Moderator to see things from another angle. Stranger things have happened, I'm sure.
The haggling that went on between Rrhain and several Moderators was a fiasco and should have been cut off at the knees before it spiraled out of control. Rrhain made his plea. A response was made. It should have ended there. But it didn't. An exchange went on for several pages.
So how do we get around that?
If Admins are Justices, then you are the Chief Justice of the Supreme EvC court. If ever there seems to be a conflict between the Admins and members, you can step in.
As well, we can confer as a Body in the Admin forum (aka: the smoked-filled room) as we had been doing to be as fair and as impartial as we can be. Perhaps we can even vote. On a deadlock situation between Admins, you will have the final authority. Or you can leave it to our discretion so as not to step on anyone's toes.
Things will not always go 100%. But we are now trading that imperfection for a more imperfect Totalitarian-style moderation.
I regret taking sudden action, but EvC Forum had become a Gordian Knot of moderators, threads, forums and processes inching inexorably into chaos. The gay issues debacle was just the final straw.
I think I can speak on behalf of all the former moderators and members alike -- we just don't see it the way you do. What chaos are you referring to that was so bad that it called for such a radical change?
Things are simpler now. I've removed those who I felt were the most divisive elements and also those who requested it.
Then why am I still here?
I think you are one of the people that understand my arguments -- that my intent is not to offend, but that I at times get my point across with not enough tact. I am aware that I could use more tact, and have sought to fix that. I am trying to do my part by taking responsibility for my actions, to apologize to those whom I've offended, and am attempting to reconcile. But others would even disagree with that. Some would say that I am divisive. Some have said that I'm evil and have refused to accept my apology even after demanding it from me. From an outside perspective, I do stir up a lot of dissension wherever I go. After all, they aren't arguing in a vacuum, they are arguing with me.
Besides, I can think of truly divisive, disruptive, mean-spirited people here at EvC that still remain who I wouldn't mind seeing them take a permanent vacation. I won't name names. I'm just wondering, if you're trying to clean up this one-horse town, why they still remain.
And then there is the matter that I did request to be suspended. I think I can speak for everyone when I say they are equally mystified as me as to how I've managed to escape the sword, but those making innocuous comments were strung up and hung to dry.
I'm going to speak as frankly as I can without being disrespectful to the fact that this is your baby, your site, your money, your time, your forum, your rules. We all know that, and as, Omni or Quetzal said, thanks for letting us play in your sandbox. You have so much to be proud of. This forum really is the best I've ever seen -- down to the format, to the rules, to the moderation, to the content, to the intellect of the members that it draws, etc, etc, etc. I could go on and on with praises.
But now this threatens it all. We all see the writing on the wall.
For those of you for whom the changes and suspensions are truly unendurable then there are other alternative than just excoriating me, which won't do anything except make me feel bad. I am resolved to stay the course I have chosen. I've done nothing to you, and the Internet is a big place with many other sites.
There is a difference between feeling proud of an accomplishment, and feeling pride over a decision to save face. I hope you aren't going to stay the course over an issue because of pride. No one is trying to make you feel bad. We just want our EvC back, and the members that helped make it what it is. I agree some changes need to be made. I agree that the interest in the site has gone down. If you started posting the statistics like you once did, I'm sure we would all see that trend manifest.
But we can iron out the kinks. Don't isolate yourself from us, Percy. You're one of us. Just don't forget that we're one of you too.
Because if Jar, brenna, iceage, sidelined, Ringo, NWR, Omni, etc don't come back, then I would rather join them.
Now, you know that's saying a lot! Most of those people don't get along with me and they tend to annoy me with an infernal annoyance. But dammit, they're my EvC brothers and sisters, all our faults aside! Its not that I desire to leave, but I have to stand up for the principle of it.
Woe to the people who are tip-toeing on eggshells around the situation, frightened to rock the boat, instead of standing with me. You all know who you are. Let your conscience devour you.
Please, reconsider, Percy.
Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typo

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Admin, posted 01-25-2008 6:48 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by anglagard, posted 01-26-2008 2:04 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 54 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2008 2:20 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 191 (451134)
01-26-2008 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by PaulK
01-26-2008 11:26 AM


Re: Brief Answers
Strongly seconded

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 01-26-2008 11:26 AM PaulK has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 191 (451139)
01-26-2008 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by anglagard
01-26-2008 2:04 PM


Re: Brief Answers
Sorry NJ, have flu.
You know, one year Michael Jordan had the flu and still went out there and won the championship. I'm just sayin'....
Sorry you don't feel well buddy. Seems the whole country is sick, infected, and contagious.
So let me state for the record, I agree with you, Taz, Arachnophilia, Rick JB, Buzsaw, Phat, Granny magda, Nator, Quetzal, and Vacate, the suspensions of jar, brenna, iceage, sidelined, Ringo, NWR, Omni, etc. should be reconsidered.
Yes, I hope that he does reconsider it.
OK, now my opinion is part of the public record, so there NJ.
Thank you for your support.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by anglagard, posted 01-26-2008 2:04 PM anglagard has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 191 (451182)
01-26-2008 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ICANT
01-26-2008 3:39 PM


Re: Re-Uproar
I ran a business for 40 years. Nobody told me in 40 years how to run my business. If it was an employee he was informed he was and employee and if he did not agree with the way I did things he could go elsewhere. The second time he told me how to run my business he was looking for a job.
Some employers seek feedback from their employees, since a business is dependent upon your customers and your employees. A good employer would do that, and good employees would treat their employer with the respect they deserve.
Nem demanded to be banned.
No, he asked who wanted to leave in protest. I manned up and said something because as the adage goes, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. What I did demand was that I not be censored and to have people who were undeservedly banned reinstated.
Lets also not forget that demands have been made against me, and apparently, me alone -- namely that I be censored. Just because you own a business, ICANT, doesn't mean that people's rights are taken away. There is a checks and balance system in the United States. Its that way for a reason -- so that both employer and employees are protected equally.
Now, for the sake of compromise, to make all parties happy, I have chosen to censor myself. Your hard-nosed, do as I say, not as I do approach will not get your point across as well as coming to amicable decisions.
Every one on here has thanked Percy for the site. Every one here has tried to come to a resolution. Every one here has acknowledged that this is ultimately his decision. So I'm unclear on where we are being ungrateful.
All he had to do was delete the link on the desktop.
Yes, I could inactivate myself right now. But I might as well let the cat out of the bag concerning my strategy.
I don't want to leave. However, I really do feel that the infamous EvC Kristallnacht was unwarranted. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. If I thought that Percy were so unreasonable to suffer any dissent, I wouldn't bother even talking to him about it. Since I think I have a pretty good idea of his character, I know very well that he is more than capable of doing the right thing. In fact, this little debacle is a Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde scenario. I'm actually in shock because I've never seen it before. That's how highly I think of him.
Why I haven't just inactivated myself is because I see some progress being made. Emotions have settled down a little, and I have hope that a resolution can be made. The reason why I wanted martyrdom was that I saw it as being the best way to save the lot of them. I wanted the big red dot hovering above my name so that every one who comes in here would think twice about what they are getting in to. Remember, we have anywhere between 200-400 lurkers a day! They see what's going on.
And look what is happening... Everyone is now afraid to speak their mind. They are terrified that they will get the boot. Can't have a debate forum if every one is afraid to debate, right?
But after listening to many level-headed people about it, such as Buzsaw, GDR, and Arach, my hard-nosed approach may be equally as pigheaded as yours (no offense). So I now am opting for quiet negotiations with Percy to reach an amicable decision. Yes, its ultimately up to him, but I think he is a reasonable enough man to listen to other opinions before he hammers the nails in the coffin.
But make no mistake, if it comes down to it, I will inactivate myself -- which, not to toot my horn, would upset a great many people. Even my enemies would be disappointed.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2008 3:39 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2008 5:17 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 191 (451213)
01-26-2008 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Buzsaw
01-26-2008 5:17 PM


Re: Re-Uproar
My heart sank when it looked as though you were a goner. Many of us do indeed value your input.
Thanks so much old friend.
Tell me what decision you think that I should take. Do you think I'm being too supportive to one side or the other? Speaking of valued input, I value yours, so lay it on me.
It appears that Admin concurs.
Even though he and I disagree on most things, I think he has some respect for me. Surely he knows that I reciprocate that back to him unhesitatingly. He's a good guy. Whatever decision he makes, I will accept. But I may do so grudgingly, and I may still leave as a result -- but I will respect it.
Time tends to heal wounds. Perhaps we will be back and running in no time, where we all can despise each other in love. Maybe we're just all in a dysfunctional relationship with one another.
Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typo

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2008 5:17 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2008 11:54 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 191 (451270)
01-27-2008 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Buzsaw
01-26-2008 11:54 PM


Re: Re-Uproar
My only advice is to go about the business of working with admins and others to make a good site even better.
I suppose so. Best case scenario is to have all the improvements without leaving people in the dust.
I can tell you this much: I have been challenged by a number of people concerning my equity as a moderator. I am laying my own life on the line for those who don't even like me. I better never hear another word about my impartiality I took moderating very seriously, and I know you did too!
I've worked to improve my MO, but alas, not many of my antagonists appear to think so.
We all need to work on something. None of us are so amazing that we needn't an improvement.
I do hope you hang in here and continue to bless us all with your articulate intelligence and wisdom.
I hope to stay too. Thanks for the kind words

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2008 11:54 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by arachnophilia, posted 01-27-2008 12:42 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 191 (451393)
01-27-2008 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Admin
01-25-2008 6:48 PM


Re: Brief Answers
EDIT to add: I guess we were typing simultaneously. It appears you are answering my question before I even asked. But I need to finish reading it.
For those of you for whom the changes and suspensions are truly unendurable then there are other alternative than just excoriating me, which won't do anything except make me feel bad. I am resolved to stay the course I have chosen. I've done nothing to you, and the Internet is a big place with many other sites.
I have addressed you directly a number of times now. I would really appreciate a reply this time because we are all in limbo awaiting some final verdict.
Or is this post your final verdict? It has a temporary ring to it, but I can't make heads or tails of it.
I just want to say that though you don't have any moral obligation to allow people to stay on the basis of their desires, simply saying that the internet is a big place and they can find a home elsewhere is minimizing one big thing.
While the internet is a sea of information, with an unending supply of forums, try to appreciate for a moment the fact that most of these people have invested a lot of time in to the forum and have fostered significant relationships, albeit, digitally.
This is home for many, many people, particularly the old timers -- some of which helped bring this place to its fruition. Collectively, they are partially responsible for making EvC what it is. Lets not loose sight of that.
I just need to know one thing, and I will leave you alone:
Is there any chance that you might reconsider? Or are you dead set on your decision?
Supposing you did allow them back, couldn't they be on a tight leash? A probationary period? Some may refuse to come back, but then, that's their decision. Could we at least try and see if they are willing to accept some of the new changes? If they aren't, then too bad. But if so, shouldn't we allow the chance to reconcile?
Please allow me the courtesy of a response.
Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : No reason given.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Admin, posted 01-25-2008 6:48 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Admin, posted 01-27-2008 3:53 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 191 (451403)
01-27-2008 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Admin
01-27-2008 3:17 PM


Re: Some Observations
I've often said that just like bad money pushes out good money (think inflation), bad debate pushes out good debate. The more threads become bogged down in endless haggling over side-issues, the less the forum hosts quality discussions and the less it draws quality participants.
I agree that bad debate pushes out good debate, but at the same time, controversial debates sucks people in like a sponge. This is why, like it or not, threads on homosexuality, abortion, etc drew large crowds.
Yes, it was divisive. And that is a problem. But good moderation can avoid these problems. It just requires some diligence and for some moderators not to involve themselves in their member status.
I've also argued many times that people don't change. Problem members, no matter what the specifics, will almost always remain problem members.
If it means anything to you, in response to my public apology, Berberry, of all people, has written me an email accepting my apology for which I am grateful for. He apologized to me, but I didn't accept his apology because he didn't have to apologize to me at all!
I meant what I said earlier. Whether it was all my fault or partly my fault is inconsequential to me. I want to eat all of it and wish to take full responsibility.
If Berberry and I can make reparations, even to the point where we may even hang out when he comes to California, why couldn't anyone else end the negativity?
More to the point, I have seen monumental changes in many members brenna, to name one. She's a sweet girl who simply is as not afraid of voicing her opinions as me. But she has changed how she delivers it in most regards. Would it be lasting? Could some a-hole push her buttons to the point where she comes back with some snappy comeback? I don't know. But I'm willing to leave the past in its rightful place.
Jar, our own lovable, cantankerous soul has also come a long way in my opinion. He and I speak amicably now, despite not still agreeing on many things. As a result, he no longer seeks to find ways to irritate me.
Since NWR's return, he and I have not quarreled even once. Same with Omni. I largely attribute that to sessions in chat, where we really got to know each other.
The list goes on.
Then of course there is the matter of people, such as iceage, that did not seem to warrant any suspension whatsoever.
And the rest, well, they just stood with their buddies. Even the always sweet Purple Dawn has jumped ship. That's got to say a lot.
AdminNosy, Adminnemooseus and myself still have details to work out regarding moderation
I hope this trio can work it out. I still think you need more.
EvC Forum exists to provide a venue for productive discussion between evolutionists and creationists through moderated discussion threads. Those who make this difficult will not be permitted to remain here. I don't think it is asking too much for members to embrace the raison d'tre of EvC Forum and not hinder achievement of our primary goal of allowing the two sides to better understand one another through communication in a dispassionate environment.
This debate will never be dispassionate. We're human beings with thoughts and emotions. I mean, I certainly agree that we all need to keep our composure, but its going to get heated even still.
Any gathering of people develops a sense of community, and this turns out to be as true of the virtual communities of the on-line world as anywhere real. It's always sad when a community loses someone
That's really the heart of the issue right now for me. But you have a forum to run. I respect your decision, but I hope that you would still reconsider.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Admin, posted 01-27-2008 3:17 PM Admin has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 191 (451405)
01-27-2008 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Admin
01-27-2008 3:53 PM


Re: Brief Answers
Nothing is forever. Let us see how things go for a little while before I give the question more consideration.
Fair enough. I can handle that for the time being.
Thank you for responding. (I had my finger on the self-destruct button )

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Admin, posted 01-27-2008 3:53 PM Admin has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 136 of 191 (451827)
01-28-2008 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by nator
01-28-2008 6:18 PM


Indisensable liberties aren't for sale
Should I be watching what I say?
Apparently everyone seems to think so, nator, which accounts for the tip-toeing around.
I think I'll just consign myself to chat.

“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by nator, posted 01-28-2008 6:18 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by iano, posted 01-28-2008 8:32 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 149 by nator, posted 01-29-2008 7:41 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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