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Author Topic:   Have any Biblical literalists been to the American Southwest?
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 166 of 189 (241941)
09-09-2005 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Faith
09-09-2005 5:18 PM


Re: Explaining the uncomformities on left & right
What point would you be making?
My point is that your theory does not need to rely on a single shift of the fault. Try reassessing it from the point of view that the fault has shifted more than once and see what you come up with.

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 Message 164 by Faith, posted 09-09-2005 5:18 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 167 of 189 (241942)
09-09-2005 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by PaulK
09-09-2005 4:15 PM


Re: World wide
and on the left it is made clear by the obvious appearance of V's having been sliced by the fault in the same way as the tilted layers were sliced from the horizontal layers on the right side of the fault line, showing it was already there when the faulting occurred which caused the tilting.
This is the problem. There's no such evidence. If V was deposited later then it would butt up against the fault.
I don't see that. It looks sliced to me, but also deposition after the fault occurred would create a drifting or piling up effect against the fault face.
And when the fault slipped again it would go with it - producing what we see. So there is no evidence on the left that V was deposited before the fault.
On the left V was clearly deposited AFTER the layers had been tilted and flattened off.
Funny it's so obviously continuous with V on the upper right in that case. Also funny that V on the upper right is curved upward toward the fault line along with all the layers beneath it, which curve was no doubt created by the fault force itself, which wouldn't happen if it had been deposited after the fault occurred.
This message has been edited by Faith, 09-09-2005 05:38 PM

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 168 of 189 (241947)
09-09-2005 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by nwr
09-09-2005 4:15 PM


Re: Eye witness account
God gave us brains. We should use them. To swallow Biblical literalism is to dishonor God, by not using our brains as they were intended to be used.
Our brains are fallen and untrustworthy, which ought to be evident by the fact that few of us can agree completely on anything whatever.
That being the case, God had pity on us and gave us His trustworthy revelation. To trust our fallen brains and distrust His revelation is what dishonors God.
God specifically inspired the Bible. While other writings may include inspiration by God, they do not have the authority of God's "thus saith the Lord" that the Bible accounts have.
Most of the evidence of the Bible is eyewitness evidence. True, Moses wrote the account of Noah, under the inspiration of God and no doubt based on the accounts passed down as well. Not eyewitness but considered as good as eyewitness nevertheless.
This message has been edited by Faith, 09-09-2005 05:45 PM

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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 169 of 189 (241948)
09-09-2005 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
09-09-2005 5:33 PM


Re: Explaining the uncomformities on left & right
For the record - I have NO IDEA what is to the left of the diagram and have not tried to find out. I will try to find out after I post this. I'm trying to be completely fair to your theory here, so I don't want any foreknowledge of what the data might show.
I fail to see how my guesses would say anything about my observation that V was no doubt already in place before the fault occurred.
Because if V is already in place then we would expect to see certain things to the left that we would not expect to see if V was not in place.
Here's your suggestions broken down.
I would anticipate possibly the rubble created by the shearing of all the layers in the process of tilting might fill the gap.
In that case, we'd expect to see a jumble of rocks from each of the sheared off layers in roughly the same proportions of the missing material.
Or possibly there would not be a gap at all but the chunk of layers would break at that point, with possibly another separate chunk of the same sequence of layers to the left, tilted the same perhaps --another broken and tilted fragment like the twin unconformities illustrated under the Grand Canyon.
In this case, if I'm reading you right, we should expect to see the "V" layer further to the left sloping along with the layers beneath it. In other words, right at the fault it's level, but further to the left, as the sub-V tilts, there's nothing to support V so it would drop down.
Or, alternatively, if I'm reading you right, you are suggesting that we should see another set of layers in the same order as the first set, where the top of the first set now rests at the bottom of the new set. As if the layer was chopped into bricks, then all the bricks were tilted and slid under each other.
Or possibly even the horizontality wasn't particularly disturbed to the left of it and another sheared-off interface occurred.
I can't picture this scenario. Wouldn't this entail the V layer hovering in mid air?
I'm going to try to find some info, be back later

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 Message 165 by Faith, posted 09-09-2005 5:33 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 170 of 189 (241951)
09-09-2005 5:47 PM


Taking a break
Possibly a long one, after this long stint of answering posts. If the thread is still here when I return I will pick up where I left off.

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 171 of 189 (241952)
09-09-2005 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
09-09-2005 5:37 PM


Re: World wide
Come off it. A little diagram certainly doesn't provide the level of detail needed to distinguish between "slicing" and the rock simply forming up against the cliff.
And should "piling up" be visible ? If it was present would it shiw at the scale of the illustration ? Would it surivive the processes needed ot lithify the rock ? Even if it did all we need is another round of erosion to level it, just as the lower strata were levelled (a much smaller job).
Yes it IS odd that the two sides are so different - but that applies even more to your proposal which has radically differnet things happening on each side.
The fact is that you don't have a viable explanation for the left hand side. You can'td ismiss that problem on the assumption that your ideas must be right.

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 Message 167 by Faith, posted 09-09-2005 5:37 PM Faith has not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 173 of 189 (241958)
09-09-2005 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
09-09-2005 5:47 PM


Re: Taking a break
I'm back.
Though I could not find an illustration of the exact area we are discussing (I could find pictures but they all just look brown from a distance)
I did find this illustration of the same effects we saw on the far right of the original illustration
www2.nature.nps.gov/geology/education/foos/grand.pdf
You'll notice that the tilted layer is not eroded flat before the layer around it was desposited. "So it pushed through it" I can hear Faith say.
But if you look to the right, you'll notice a wedge of completely different material. If the tilted layer pushed through the flat layer, where did the new material come from? Spontaneous generation?

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 Message 170 by Faith, posted 09-09-2005 5:47 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 174 of 189 (241972)
09-09-2005 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Jazzns
09-09-2005 4:35 PM


Re: Not to mention!
How does the flood explain why the evidence for Appalachian Orogony is spread out over 3 continent?. In other words, why do the Appalachians exist in North America, Western Europe, and Northern Africa?
Isn't that explained by Continental Drift? The Flood version that makes sense to me is that the continents were once combined as one, but then broke apart and separated at some point after the Flood, as a result of the tectonic activity initiated in the Flood. So the folded mountains would most likely have been formed during the period they were separating, probably caused by the action of the ocean floor plates exerting a pushing-apart action.

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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 175 of 189 (241976)
09-09-2005 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Faith
09-09-2005 5:44 PM


Re: Eye witness account
Our brains are fallen and untrustworthy, which ought to be evident by the fact that few of us can agree completely on anything whatever.
That being the case, God had pity on us and gave us His trustworthy revelation. To trust our fallen brains and distrust His revelation is what dishonors God.
Does His revelation express itself inside of our fallen brains or does it bypass them somehow? I'm sure you can see the problem here. If we can't trust our brains, it seems difficult to know when the revelation is His or ours. The loony bins are full of people we've decided are listening to their fallen brains.

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 Message 168 by Faith, posted 09-09-2005 5:44 PM Faith has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 176 of 189 (241977)
09-09-2005 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Faith
09-09-2005 8:12 PM


Re: Not to mention!
Right. Damn this is as funny as the birds standing on dinosaur heads.
So the folded mountains would most likely have been formed during the period they were separating, probably caused by the action of the ocean floor plates exerting a pushing-apart action.
Okay Faith, since you've refused to answer the other question, how about this one.
Please explain how the pushing-apart action folds up the Appalachians.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 09-09-2005 8:12 PM Faith has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 177 of 189 (241980)
09-09-2005 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by roxrkool
09-09-2005 3:08 PM


Rox will not go into the night alone (CK goes down in flames)
quote:
WHY WHY WHY!!!!
WHY does anyone (me included) respond to this utter fucking garbage written by an ignorant armchair geologic-know-nothing who couldn't tell the difference between shit and schist?
WHY?
Yes, I know I will likely be suspended for this. I no longer care.
I'm leaving for a week in the field doing REAL geolgy and I won't have internet access. Take care. Later.
I'm sick of this fucking bullshit as well, where faith is allowed to slur people of education because she "believes". This is not because of any special knowledge on my part or even any knowledge of geology (but I do have access to professors of geology who subscribe to my "rugchewing theory") - but there had to be a point where people who can be bothered to get off their arses and actually tried to BETTER themselves and READ and LEARN say "I really don't give a fuck what backwater bullshit you want to pull it's fucking horseshit of the first order".
I'm sick to death of having to pretend that I respect the views of people who cannot be bothered to even try and grasp the MOST BASIC ASPECTS of the science/field they are trying to do a critique of!
FUCK THAT.
Rox
You will not go alone into the night. This is a joke, look at the people who are giving up on the forum out of sheer "I cannot believe this bullshit is allow to stand".
I honestly and 100% believe VIA FAITH that faith is mentally ill, rug-chewing mentally ill. Can I be suspended for a honestly held belief?
Others on here believe that Lam and others are "in the wrong" for
being homosexual - so what is the difference between that and my honest belief that faith is totally wrong because she is rug-chewing mad based upon my interaction with her and her interaction with others?
Other people on here believe that a man they have never met and have never seen walked on water and changed Water into wine.
I have FAR more empirical evidence about faith that I do about Jesus, I have never interacted or seen any comment from jesus, I have never seen him walk on water, I have never seen him turn water into wine.
FAITH IS RUG-CHEWING MAD - if that viewpoint is wrong, then how can a viewpoint based upon a book from 2000 years ago and LESS interaction be allowed to stand?
?
It is my honest belief that she is MAD.
Regards to you all - but I am fucking sick of this double standard that is driving away (and not me because I'm just a shit-kicker lazy bastard) people with real knowledge and understanding who can really contribute to this place. I tend to be more of a lurker those days but why the fuck am I going to lurk when people with something to say are driven away by fruitcakes?
I salute you roxrkool and next time I'm in the states - I'll buy you and yours all the drinks you like!
This message has been edited by CK, 09-Sep-2005 08:37 PM
This message has been edited by CK, 09-Sep-2005 08:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 178 of 189 (241983)
09-09-2005 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by CK
09-09-2005 8:23 PM


Re: Rox will not go into the night alone
I honestly and 100% believe VIA FAITH that faith is mentally ill, ru-chewing mentally ill. Can I be suspended for a honesly held belief?
Odin the Allfather himself he hangs out on my couch a lot agrees with you. So it's not just a belief of your's, it's a fact confirmed by divine revelation.

If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by CK, posted 09-09-2005 8:23 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Nuggin, posted 09-09-2005 8:35 PM DrJones* has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 179 of 189 (241987)
09-09-2005 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by DrJones*
09-09-2005 8:29 PM


Re: Rox will not go into the night alone
Blaspheme! Again you utter the name of your dark false God, this "Odin"?! Heresy
Poseidon is the one true god!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by DrJones*, posted 09-09-2005 8:29 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by DrJones*, posted 09-09-2005 8:39 PM Nuggin has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 180 of 189 (241991)
09-09-2005 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Nuggin
09-09-2005 8:35 PM


Re: Rox will not go into the night alone
Dude, Thor is gonna gonna slap you upside the head with Mjollnir for your blasphemy. Poseidon? What kind of name for a god is that? It sounds greek to me, and you know those greeks were all dirty homersexuals. The so-called "gods" not of the Norse Pantheon are all lies perpetrated by Loki.

If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Nuggin, posted 09-09-2005 8:35 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 181 of 189 (241992)
09-09-2005 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by DrJones*
09-09-2005 8:39 PM


Re: Rox will not go into the night alone
I will see you over the rainbow bridge brother (or is that just a marvel comics thing?)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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