Fossil sorting for simple

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For example, do you think flowering plants go all the way back to the Cambrian?

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Do you?

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Do you think that there have always been mammals around?

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Not me, but after the world was made, on the day that the mammals were made, why, yes, I think there were. Do you have some reason to doubt this?

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It isn't a matter of one or ten papers. It is 10,000's of them.

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Well, I guess the more words one writes, then, the more true they are? Could any of these papers you refer to have been based on Godless reason, and assumptions?

arkathon, Nope.Stratigraphic layering is cross-correlatable globally. Given we know that layers, even in a flood scenario, are laid down superpositionally, we know that layers known as being in the Cretaceous are younger than those being in the Cambrian.So why, then, don't any terrestrial plants, let alone flowering plants, appear in Cambrian strata? Not a single solitary one.Terrestrial plants actually appear in the fossil record in the same way that cladistics & phylogenetic trees suggest. Bryophytes, seedless vasculars, seed ferns, gymnosperms & angiosperms. Since all but the bryophytes contain small plants to towering trees, this presents you with a problem. The old "it floats so it appears higher up the geologic column" dog won't hunt. Why club mosses should be found in Devonian strata to present, yet grass & oaks are only found relatively recently destroys the efficacy of such an argument. The seed fern Medullosa noei.Seed ferns are even more problematic, they too consisted of small plants & trees, yet none are found in post-Jurassic deposits. Trees float, don't they?Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

Yes. Mammals only appear in the top 5% or thereabouts of the fossil record. The various "explanations" proposed by creationists for this fact are not supported by any evidence and are contradicted by much evidence. The mainstream explanation, that life has existed for much longer than mammals have, is consistent with that fact and a host of others; explains much; and is not contradicted by any known evidence. Therefore, the mainstream view is the bet theory we have.

There is no such account. Genesis nowhere claims to represent an eye-witness account. Even conservative Christians and Jews who oppose Biblical schlarship on the issue attribute the writing of Genesis to Moses. Biblical scholars generally attribute the Genesis account to the combination of two versions of a myth common in the area, another version of which may be found in the older Epic of Gilgamesh.Actually, Genesis is a compulation put together by Moses, it is a compulation of accounts written by individuals before Moses.There goes that myth term again. Genesis is not written in a mythical literary format, so calling it a myth is like and Epic a sonnet. It's mistaken to do so. Genesis does not have superhumans, fairies, nymphs, heroic accomplishments by a god-man, and is usually polytheistic, with gods having human qualities, men/women, having god qualities or powers as well as animals having human qualities.And how does not accepting the flood not contradict scritpure and not support evolution?

Stratigraphic layering is cross-correlatable globally.Where's the data supporting this?

I beg your pardon? Talking snakes, superhuman beings that guard fantastic gardens with swords, guys that live 900+ years, "giants"......
Which Genesis have you been reading? Not the one in the Bible, obviously.

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Given we know that layers, even in a flood scenario, are laid down superpositionally

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Given that you might have a leg to stand on. I don't give you that. You need to think a lot, lot bigger when the word 'flood' is used in the biblical context. It refers not just to some water spilling over, but to world shaking, prolonged violence, that included many events, such as even, some feel, the very seperation of continents? In any such movement areas would be sqeezed, & folded, say like the Himilayas. and rocky mountain ranges. If such an area was crunched up, how superpsitional would things be in the area? Too much heat, one might say? We would have to question our understanding of how the plates really work, and also realize that the flood operation was carried out by One who had access to any cold, or heat source in the universe! He had His Hand on all the valves necessary to pull it off just right!

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So why, then, don't any terrestrial plants, let alone flowering plants, appear in Cambrian strata? Not a single solitary one.

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Kind of makes you wonder if all those ancient trilobites, and sea cucumbers etc. (I think these thinks were in Burgess, no?)were all strictly carnivorous? Not a single solitary plant to eat? The plants were made on the third day, so there were plants around very early on! Why are they not preserved? Is there anything we presently know about that would produce conditions where plants would not get fossilized? Chemical combination? Secondly, do we know that we are now the same as they were in the garden of Eden? Do we have the same lifespan? Do we have the same diet? Do we have the same climate? Likewise, do our present plants all behave the exact same way now, as then? Did any plants pollenate then? Did they have a different way to reproduce? If so, what traces would we expect to find-(say, if it wasn't pollen)? Different plants possible? Well, I haven't chewed on any tree of life lately! Not even one of knowledge of good and evil! Perhaps there were some big differences!

Steve, have you ever heard of the petroleum industry? It's been around a while now - they use correlation of strata to find oil and gas. They've done so for a century or so now. They tend to avoid using prophecy to find them, though.The data supporting Mark is in your gas tank. It's also in every elementary geology text published since about 1880.

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Why club mosses should be found in Devonian strata to present, yet grass & oaks are only found relatively recently destroys the efficacy of such an argument.

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If you prefer to imagine the deposits as old age related, I can see where you get confused!
Now if all those layers you just mentioned were laid down within a year or so, and really jiggled up, why, it may not be so strange after all.

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Seed ferns are even more problematic, they too consisted of small plants & trees, yet none are found in post-Jurassic deposits. Trees float, don't they?

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Very crushing to find out that either we missed something so far in our diggings, or the poor dinosaurs in Jurrasic Park had no ferns to eat! (At least not like our present ones) Were there other plants to eat, or did they have to settle for tourists?

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Steve, have you ever heard of the petroleum industry? It's been around a while now - they use correlation of strata to find oil and gas. They've done so for a century or so now. They tend to avoid using prophecy to find them, though.

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Tell that to Uri Geller! I hear that he was employed by oil companies for helping find oil!? (really)
So the petro boys find the fossil fuels, with the help of the geo boys, that floats up in, or settles in certain layers. Doesn't mean the flood didn't create the layers! (not to mention the plants, and fish, and mammals, etc. that were drowned to form the fossil fuel to begin with)

Ask The Amazing Randi about Uri Geller.Come on. No one believes Geller was anything other than a fraud. He was not even a good magician.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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No one believes Geller was anything other than a fraud. He was not even a good magician.

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I don't know much about the fellow. All I know, is he used to bend spoons, but I heard he was hired by an oil company. People do pay money for psyhic talent you must realize. Many police forces use them to try to help in tough cases. Waste of money? Maybe, nevertheless, people pay for it. If I heard wrong about Uri, let me know, but the point was he was used by the petro boys. I also think Edgar Cayce would devine up some oil years ago as well, in the US. People say oil would flow out of his palms, when he hit the right area.
Regardless, if these types hit it right , or the geo boys hit it right, as to where in the flood deposits to strike it rich, it don't much matter to me.

Sppon bending is NOT the topic of this thread.

Spoon bending is NOT the topic of this thread.This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 06-24-2004 01:46 PM

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If you prefer to imagine the deposits as old age related, I can see where you get confused!
Now if all those layers you just mentioned were laid down within a year or so, and really jiggled up, why, it may not be so strange after all.

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So we have this violent shaking, mountains shooting up thousands of feet, water spouting thousands of feet in the air, rain coming down inches to the minute. And yet, WORLDWIDE, the largest and tiniest fossils are sorted without error. Grass pollen is sorted away from fern pollen, current crab species are sorted away from trilobites who where in the same environment, angiosperms and gymnosperms that lived in the same habitat where sorted regardless of size, on and on and on. Not even one human or human artifact can be found in the same layer as dinosaurs. And all of this while the earth was going through a seizure like geologic event. Are you starting to see why the global flood has been falsified?On top of that, the rocks were sorted not by size, but by the ratios of isotopes found within them. Fossils were sorted not by size or habitat, but by the DNA relationships found between extant species. Everything is sorted by things water and violent uplift are incapable of distinguishing between.