Intelligence

Lol. I guess you have a point. As for fifth dimensions, I have trouble imagining two. Well, yes, an IQ test can only tell you so much I suppose. I think it is one aspect of intelligence. But then, you might just be good at IQ tests. Either way, ur not a monkey so be grateful. Just as long as the answers are there for him to choose from eh, I don't think the computer could handle his response. It would *sizzle* and say "Unnacceptable, cannot compute, no omniscient buffer in place" . Haha. You would have to swallow a library before taking this test.Honestly tho, I do think Brad will have a high IQ. I think Brad deserves a "Brad dimension" of his own eh, cos he seems to transcend the mortal dimension.

I have very specialized knowledge, that's the only reason it might appear singular, as it was NOT a singularity!! It is not as high as you made me blush. That much I do know. But you are correct if there was to be a DESIGN of one, I would have fun with that trying to subtract the mismeasure of Huuumans.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to think I'm in the league of Hawking, but I know in my heart that it just ain't so. On the other hand, perhaps I am up there with Hawking. I have no problem with three-dimensional concepts and visualization, and in A Brief History of Time, Hawking says that he personally finds it "hard enough to visualize three-dimensional space." *cough* Yeah, right! I'm sure he finds it reeeeeally difficult! [ / sarcasm ] But seriously, if anyone can do it (conceptualize higher dimensions), I'm sure he can. Hell, if the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics can't do it, what possible hope do I have?Incidentally, feel free to jump in on that thread, if you wish. You needn't be able to actually tell me how to visualize 4D space; even if you just have something relevant to add, you're more than welcome. Heh, if I were to limit the thread to those with an in-depth understanding of the concept, it wouldn't leave too many to participate.I accept that I'm not going to be able to do it any time soon (if ever). All the topic was really intended as was a stepping stone for me to learn a bit more and become better acquainted with the concept. So don't worry if you're not an "expert," I'm sure as hell not!Also, you say five-dimensional; I assume this is because you're including a temporal dimension as well. That's quite alright; I just wanted to be clear that as far as spatial dimensions go, I'm only focusing on four, for the time being. Naturally, this means that my aim is the visualization of five-dimensional space/time. I just wanted to clarify that in case you were actually referring to five-dimensional space. If you were...well, you know..."Walk before you run."Hmm...I'm off topic...again. Ugh! You see, Mike? That's what happens when you bring up dimensions in front of me. It's a concept I love with a fervour like no other, and when it's mentioned, I can't shut up about it! Buggered if I know why it fascinates me so much, mind you, but it does. *shrug* Yes, that's true. In fact, I believe I made this point earlier in the thread; you can improve your performance in pretty much any activity, if you do it enough. This includes standardized IQ tests.My "solution" was to say that if we are to go by our IQ score then we should go by our very first, as that's the point at which we are least familiar with the process. Unfortunately, nothing is fool-proof; on my very first IQ test I scored 159. Suffice it to say, I still think this is way too high for me. So, you know...take all of this with a grain of salt.But getting back to intelligence itself...As I stated previously, I believe that true intelligence is not what you know, but how well (how quickly, easily, etc) you adapt to what you don't know. Give someone a puzzle, the methodology of which they've been taught, and they solve it; that shows education. Give someone a puzzle, the likes of which they've never encountered, and they solve it; that shows intelligence.So I suppose, in a sense, I view intelligence as being more akin to ingenuity, or creativity than simply knowledge. It's more than finding a solution you've been shown how to find; it's finding a solution that you can't even be sure exists; it's being resourceful enough to come up with your own working methodology, in the absence of one.You know what? I think I just had an epiphany. Perhaps this is what Einstein meant when he said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." I've never considered that before! I only know the quote, I don't know the context it was written/spoken in so he may have elaborated on it, but as it stands, that gave me a new perspective on it.Of course, I could be flat-out wrong, too. He may have meant something entirely different. Still, it's a thought that hadn't occurred to me before. Outstanding! Thanks, Mike! Hey, there are plenty of worse things to be than a monkey. I could have been a tapeworm. Ugh! Now there's an "interesting" thought. Yup, it would have to be multiple choice. He should be a programmer; the only line he'd ever need to be familiar with is "Bad command or file name."Ack! I can't help myself, can I? Hey Brad, if you're reading this, my apologies; I know I shouldn't joke at your expense. I don't mean any disrespect, and you seem to have a sense of humour, so I hope it's cool. It's nothing personal and I intend no offence. Believe it or not, I agree. I have always had the sense that he is bright and knowledgeable, just not especially articulate. As I said before, knowledge doesn't make one intelligent, but I do believe that Brad has both. At the very least, he has some knowledge; of that I am quite confident. He certainly appears to know something...whatever it is.

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If you're interested, I got 162.

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If this is true, then I must ask you, HOW THE HELL DID YOU GET THE ANSWER TO #12??!?!?!?Please and thank you.

Hi Mission.Well, yeah, it is true, as far as that test goes. But as I've said before, I don't think my actual IQ is anywhere near that.As for that question, honestly, I just did it in my head. It really isn't a very hard one, assuming I'm looking at the right question. John weighs 85 kg and Jake weighs 115 kg, so if John and Jake were standing together on the same scale, they would weigh a total of 200 kg (85 + 115).Therefore the answer is "True"...I hope that made sense.

This does NOT bode well for me.I declare your babble most unacceptable! Hey Tony, you've lost me. I read your topic about dimensions and believe me, I'm uselessly avoiding such a thread. All you need to know is that mike got 140, and that the IQ test we took is the hardest one ever, even Einstein scored 100 on it. Phew, there is hope. I do have an imagination, and vivid dreams. Lucid dreaming is also fun. Oh that reminds me, is sleep to enter another dimension? (Tony rant, incoming )....lol.....Anway, I like art, does this mean I'm intelligent?? *hopes*...cos I do like painting. He was modest and said he has specialised knowledge. *Yeah right*.

I took a general psychology course in undergrad and the professor had us look at intelligence this way. You are born with a potential intelligence range and the remainder of intelligence is determined by nutrition, access to education, etc. For example, two children may both be born with an IQ range of 100 to 125. One child was born to parents who did not have the means to provide the right nutrition, health care, or education so that child ended up with an IQ of 100. The other child was born to wealthy parents who made sure he had the best of everything, so that child ended up with an IQ of 125. Does that make any sense?

Ummmmmm. I think we're talking about the wrong test here, lol. I was asking about #12 on the "Ultimate IQ Test". It has two pentagrams, one big one and one inside that one. The sequence they give you is: J I H G K F A and you have to figure out the next letter.(damn typos)This message has been edited by Mission for Truth, 09-27-2004 11:43 AM

Heh, fair enough. Sorry about that. You understand the concept of four-dimensional space/time, right? Any event requires four co-ordinates to plot; x-axis, y-axis, z-axis and time. So in that sense we are already able to visualize four-dimensional spaces/bodies, as those familiar to us already have length, width, height and duration.What I'm focusing on (for now) is space/time with one more spatial dimension than we are familiar with. This would be five-dimensional space/time. Spaces/bodies would have four spatial dimensions and duration.The reason that I generally refer to them as "four-dimensional" is the same reason we generally refer to familiar things as "three-dimensional"; by and large, we don't bother to take time into account. We don't think of a cube as being "four-dimensional including time." Since any familiar thing you care to mention has duration, it seems a bit redundant. I mean, as opposed to what? How do you visualize anything without duration?It's a rather pointless distinction for the purpose of my discussion. As time is so ingrained on our psyche, it is pretty much a given; everything we visualize will have duration regardless of how many spatial dimensions it has, so I tend to just omit the temporal dimension altogether and focus on the spatial dimensions themselves.Hmm...I hope I didn't just confuse you even more. Did that make things any clearer, or just worse? Noooooo, don't avoid it! By all means, jump in! Don't worry about not being an expert...I'm certainly not.If the concept really overwhelms you, feel free to just ask some questions. I'll take a shot at them myself if nobody else does. I'm no mathematician but I know a lot more about this than the average layman. And if I can't give you an answer, there are plenty of others that I know can.Oh and thanks for reading it, too. I appreciate you taking the time; it's nice to know that my topic wasn't completely wasted. Well, in that case, my 162 must put me up there with the likes of Marilyn Vos Savant. I would say that I have both, too. As a child, my favourite activity in school was always story writing.In fact, my dreams have actually given me some terrific ideas for stories, on occasion. I don't know if this happens to anyone else but I have, from time to time, actually dreamt entire stories which were not only vivid, but very logical and plot driven. Sometimes they have even been cast with familiar actors.It's the weirdest feeling; sometimes it's very much like just sitting and watching a movie, others it is more interactive and I am actually a participant in the goings on. Now that I think about it, I don't recall having a really good one for some time, but I have to say that some of my best ideas were originally realized as dreams.Some of them have even had surprise endings. It seems strange to me that a creation of my own imagination can actually surprise me with a twist ending, but somehow, it has done it. And if that isn't weird enough, some of them have been consistent to the point of actually explaining certain events from earlier in the dream which may not have made sense initially, but all fall into place in light of the "unexpected" twist. It's like my mind knew, in advance, how it was going to end the "story," but somehow still managed to surprise me with it!I have no idea how this works or what it means, though. Perhaps my mind just works overtime. Whatever it is, it feels kind of like seeing a really cool movie; I'll wake up and think, "Wow! That was terrific!"Any dream experts out there? Is this kind of thing common or am I a freak? I love lucid dreams! I haven't had one of those for a while either but I think I've just become lazy. I was working on having them a year or two back, with some degree of success. I'd already had them before but never "on purpose." I just knew they were great fun when they happened, so I started researching them and practicing techniques to induce them. Me? Rant? When have I ever been known to do that?Anyway, no, I doubt that sleeping is "entering another dimension." I'm pretty sure you'll find that sleep is simply your body's "recharging" state. I like art, too. Especially nudes...*cough*...but enough about my artistic tastes.I really only dabble in "3D computer art" myself. I don't really draw or paint but I do have an appreciation for them. Still, I doubt that a simple appreciation for art is a direct indication of intelligence, any more than a love of music, film or anything else.An aptitude in the respective medium may indicate it, but even then, it's a little too narrow to really define as "intelligence." "Skill," perhaps, or "talent," but "intelligence" I think is much broader.For example, I'm fairly musically inclined. My instruments of choice are the guitar and piano/keyboards, but give me five minutes with just about any instrument and I'll get a tune out of it. It may not rival Vivaldi's Four Seasons but it will be a song of some sort.Anyway, I've been told that my ear for music is a sign of intelligence but I really don't think that is so. I think, at best, it is a sign of one specific branch of intelligence, but to say that it shows that I'm intelligent is, I think, generalizing one particular skill a little too far.Of course, this is just my take on it. I think Brad has a fairly broad knowledge base. I repeat: I think. He may have specialized knowledge in something but I can't tell what. He may even have stated it previously, but I'm afraid I've skipped most of what he's written during the years I've been reading EvC so if he's ever mentioned it, I obviously missed it.

I thought that seemed like an odd question for you to get stumped on; it was very easy, so I had a feeling we were getting our wires crossed somehow. But I didn't want to just say, "Dude, u so dumb!"Suffice it to say, I got the 162 on the test that Mike posted, not the "Ultimate IQ Test" which I'm afraid I still haven't taken. Don't worry, though; I can quite confidently say that I won't get anything approaching 162 on that test. If I do, I think I will take that as conclusive evidence that these tests are completely inaccurate. Hmm...it's a bit tough without actually seeing it. Don't worry, when I do it I'll let you know what I think. I can't make any promises, mind you; if it stumped you, I wouldn't count on me doing any better. I'll give it a shot, though.

Thought I'd throw in my two cents...I took the Mensa tests at the age of 15, and got a ridiculously high score. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it's been the biggest barrier between me and a happy life, simply because my parents began to over-estimate me - naturally seeing as they thought they had a genius on their hands. My dad was disappointed when I said I wanted to do geology. My older sister is a doctor already and he was hoping for something similar... Anyway, he was angry when I didn't bother working hard in school and just scraped enough to get into the course I wanted in college. He just kept saying that I could have gotten a scholarship and done much better for myself.I think he's gotten over it know, seeing as I'm just about to start a Masters degree in geological computer simulations. It was still tough at the time though. I'm never taking another test, and I swore I'd never telling anyone what I got on that Mensa test. All it's done is make my life harder, and I certainly don't feel all that intelligent.On the dimensions thing - are you actually talking about visualising 3D objects? Do people find that hard? It's weird because if I couldn't do that I'd give myself a migraine doing the simulations.You're not talking about that, right?The Rock Hound

Hi IrishRockhound.Yes, I understand what you're saying. I've heard similar stories and I think it's a shame that some parents do this. In fact, this reminds me of something that I might post here some time when I get the chance.As for the topic of dimensions, no, I am not referring to the visualization of three dimensions; I have no problem with that.If you are interested in this subject, please feel free to check out my thread. This will explain my questions in more detail.It didn't really thrive the way I thought it would. I find this subject fascinating and when I first started the topic, I assumed that others would, too. But I'm afraid it died a rather quick death. So if you have anything to add, I'd love to hear from you.

I'm in almost the exact same situation - I'm sure I didn't score as well as you probably did, and I'm a college dropout (hopefully I'll be dropping back in next semester or so), but I know how suffocating "potential" can be.But I know I have a pretty high IQ, too. And that's been a source of some comfort, I guess. I mean, a high IQ is only moderately useful. There's other kinds of mental ability that are much more useful, like cleverness, or a good memory, or determination. High IQ people don't seem to come to any less wrong conclusions than anyone else, many times - they just come to those conclusions much more quickly.For me it's just been a thing where I've discovered my limitations, probably much later than most people do - in fact that high IQ might have retarded my progress in finding my limits - and now I'm coming to understand the way in which, as I once saw it put somewhere, "I make myself my enemy."

I don't think some of these IQ tests can be very accurate.There are many factors that can affect the result- time, previous experience with the same questions, guessing, distractions, etc.I, personally, have scored high on some and low on others.It is interesting, though, to see the "effect" of a particular score on a person!

Hey Tony,I'm glad people are posting in my thread because intelligence is something that absolutely facinates me. After all it's what separates us from the animals right? Anyways, Tony, you HAVE to do the ultimate iq test and tell me what you get and talk to me about whatever troubles you, if anything! I would talk more but my rum and cokes are awaiting me...-Sean