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Author Topic:   Security Rounds, Marines Killing Wounded/Fallujah
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4675 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 31 of 34 (173634)
01-04-2005 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tal
01-03-2005 2:01 AM


Much Ado
Tal writes:
Most of us here work with, or at least see, the Average Iraqi everyday.
You're in Iraq? Armed Forces? Regardless, I respect you for being there when it is needed.
I agree with some of your stated opinions but I think you are a bit on the extreme side. All of us here know that there are times when women and children are shot. Some warranted...some not. I believe that most of the unwarranted ones are accidents or mistakes.
I think that this is a matter of those mistakes being blown out of proportion a bit...added on to the bad publicity that occurred from the prison. Additionally, the guys that hate the US are pretty good at cooking up some juicy stories.
BTW, I HAVE been in the military and I know what kind of bigotry exists and is tolerated by most. So, don't think you can blow smoke that easily. It doesn't mean that everyone agrees or likes it. However, not saying anything can be construed as accepting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tal, posted 01-03-2005 2:01 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Tal, posted 01-04-2005 1:42 AM LinearAq has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 32 of 34 (173648)
01-04-2005 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Silent H
01-03-2005 11:05 AM


This is a game that I do not play. After being here for a while I have run out of any patience running and getting sources for 1) things that pretty obviously we both know, 2) are easy enough to get online using simple searches, and/or 3) for people that are likely to disappear or dismiss the evidence provided.
Yes, there are instances of soldiers shooting civilians when they were not supposed to.
Those individuals will face the music for their actions. I guess to me your comments make it sound like innocents are being killed by the US and we are not being held accountable. If your point is simply that we have killed innocent civillians, then you are correct.
The context of your examples was to create an excuse for what happens.
The context was to cite examples where we kill women and children, not to make any excuse for it.
You addressed this with examples of how heartbroken a specific soldier was when killing someone they did not want to, and a person taking out someone as they should though having doubts and it turned out for the best.
I simply stated what happened. Read into it what you wish.
I will ask again, did you read the sniper account (the one by the snipers) and was it not terribly upsetting from the view point of a moral soldier?
Sniping people? That's not upseting.
Wounding them and letting them wriggle about for a bit?
I would have to know more details to make a judgement but my initial impression is that when they take their initial shot, they are aiming to kill and not wound. This is for their safety, as they don't want to sit in the same spot and fire repeatedly.
That being said, it takes a second to reload and it takes time to reaquire the target and set up another shot. It's not like in video games where you simply place the crosshairs over something and mash a button.
If they take an extra second or two to let the guy scream a bit, that doesn't upset me. If they sit there for 5 mins and keep intentionally wounding the target (Full Metal Jacket), then yes, that is wrong.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Silent H, posted 01-03-2005 11:05 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Silent H, posted 01-04-2005 5:33 AM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 33 of 34 (173649)
01-04-2005 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by LinearAq
01-04-2005 12:27 AM


Re: Much Ado
You're in Iraq? Armed Forces?
Yes, I'm in Baghdad in the IZ. US Army.
BTW, I HAVE been in the military and I know what kind of bigotry exists and is tolerated by most. So, don't think you can blow smoke that easily. It doesn't mean that everyone agrees or likes it. However, not saying anything can be construed as accepting.
Elaborate?
Do we call the badguys names? Yes.
Do we call the average Iraqi names? There may a few that do, but generally no. I have heard NCOs correct soldiers for calling the workers that come into the palace "camel jockeys."
And do you know what we call the badguys?
Haji. That's Arab for....bad guy.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by LinearAq, posted 01-04-2005 12:27 AM LinearAq has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 34 of 34 (173673)
01-04-2005 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Tal
01-04-2005 1:36 AM


I guess to me your comments make it sound like innocents are being killed by the US and we are not being held accountable.
In some cases we may not be, though I would hope in most cases we are. I can only take it on your word that every case is.
I simply stated what happened. Read into it what you wish.
No, that's a mistake. There was a topic and you answered it with something that either attempted to answer the argument or chose something completely at random to say.
Take a look back at what the issue was and how you answered it. If i am to assume you did not just pull a new subject out of the air at random, then I have to assume what you said was trying to address the subject.
If it was an attempt to address the subject then it was doing so by making an emotional appeal regarding the moral behavior of soldiers, the times when they do right even if it feels wrong or if it looks wrong at first.
So I am either reading it as you meant it, or I am mistaken and you just decided to start a new topic... unless there is a third I am missing?
Sniping people? That's not upseting... Wounding them and letting them wriggle about for a bit?... I would have to know more details to make a judgement...
Again, you are the one that is avoiding directly dealing with the evidence at hand. Is there more info that might change what was being reported by the soldier's themselves? Maybe. But why is their word not good enough now? And why can you not react to their own words?
That guy was not talking about taking advantage of a miss during a reload. And I might add the very end quote was of a guy that described his "hunts" as "personal".

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Tal, posted 01-04-2005 1:36 AM Tal has not replied

  
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