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Author Topic:   Sedimentary Rock Formation
TheLiteralist
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 67 (238725)
08-30-2005 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jazzns
08-30-2005 10:09 AM


QED?
Forgive my ignorance...what's "QED"?

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 67 (238726)
08-30-2005 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by TheLiteralist
08-30-2005 11:05 PM


Re: QED?
quod erat demonstrandum

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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TheLiteralist
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 67 (238727)
08-30-2005 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jazzns
08-30-2005 10:09 AM


Re: Everyone seems to ignore evaporites.
Jazzns,
I haven't had a chance to read up on evaporites, yet, but just thinking about it for a moment...don't evaporites require that the sediment was originally in solution? That's still a watery origin, isn't it?
--Jason

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 19 of 67 (238733)
08-30-2005 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by TheLiteralist
08-30-2005 11:02 PM


Re: fossil eolian dunes
Is there anything in the dune-analagous features that would absolutely prevent a watery origin?
High angles of repose seen in buried dune faces, for starters. Try the experiment: see how steep a pyramid of sand you can make in a piepan with everything dry. Repeat with the pyramid completely under water. Compare steepness of the sides.
QED means "that which was to be shown:" it's the traditional last line of proofs in geometry or logic. Try the experiment. You'll get a QED.

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 20 of 67 (238736)
08-30-2005 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by TheLiteralist
08-30-2005 11:06 PM


Re: Everyone seems to ignore evaporites.
don't evaporites require that the sediment was originally in solution? That's still a watery origin, isn't it?
Sure. But then you would have to explain why there are evaporite deposits in the middle of the geologic column. Did it flood, dry completely up, and then flood again? Over and over? Then there is the issue of the thickness of the deposits. One cycle of innudation plus evaporation only leaves a thin layer of salt behind. We are talking about evaporite layers that can be very large.
In the end, evaporites require...well.....evaporation to occur. And since the deposits are sometimes in the middle of the column you have a problem for a continuous worldwide flood.

No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 67 (238742)
08-30-2005 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jazzns
08-30-2005 11:37 PM


Re: Everyone seems to ignore evaporites.
Michigan is a good example. It's kinda hard to explain the salt basins with the flood.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 22 of 67 (238749)
08-30-2005 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
08-30-2005 11:43 PM


Re: Everyone seems to ignore evaporites.
Not to mention gypsum.
Arkansas Geological Survey - Official Home Page
The greatest thickness of a single gypsum bed (12 feet) is at Plaster Bluff in Pike County. In a major operation near Briar, Howard County, 5 beds of massive gypsum with an aggregate thickness of as much as 20 feet are mined.
Try to get 20ft of gypsum out from underneath water as high as the tallest mountain in a year. Good luck to the brave soul who trys. =)

No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 67 (238755)
08-31-2005 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Jazzns
08-30-2005 11:58 PM


Re: Everyone seems to ignore evaporites.
Yup. Damn near as hard as putting the 1200 feet of dirt on top of the 400 foot think layer of salt under Detroit.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 67 (238769)
08-31-2005 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by TheLiteralist
08-30-2005 7:58 AM


Re: delicate fossils imprints
Well, the grass-marks-on-dunes fossils I've never heard of before.
I can envision these types of delicate fossil imprints occuring only if the sand contained water and some sort of curing agent...sort of like how concrete works. Otherwise, it seems like the mark would quickly disappear.
Not necessary. They just need something to cover the sand (or whatever) without disturbing the marks, and then compression and heat to turn sand to sandstone and the covering material to another bit of rock.
You could have something like volcanic ash cover the site and then turn to rock above the sand while capturing the imprint even though the sand gets {washed\blown\eroded} away afterward.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 67 (238771)
08-31-2005 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by TheLiteralist
08-30-2005 11:05 PM


Re: QED?
jar writes:
quod erat demonstrandum
latin for "that which was to be demonstrated" (loose translation)
usually used at the end of a mathematical or logical proof.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 26 of 67 (239272)
08-31-2005 10:12 PM


Heavy metals
Forget about salt and gypsum--YECS will say they were light and floated. Try explaining the distribution of massive heavy mineral orebodies in sedimentary rock. Witwatersrand, source of about one-third of all gold ever mined, lies in a sedimentary basin. Though geos are still debating whether it was dropped or pushed(or both), the fact remains that it is distributed through thousands of feet of sediments, out-cropping on the surface originally. In a YEC scenario, gold must be able to float.

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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 27 of 67 (239764)
09-01-2005 7:20 PM


Don't see it here, not about to go thread mining...
I've looked around and don't see any mention of it here, but perhaps it's in a different thread.
Do YEC's believe in Ice Ages and glaciers? If so, when in the last 4000 years was that supposed to have happened. If not, where the heck did Long Island come from?

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 28 of 67 (239766)
09-01-2005 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Nighttrain
08-31-2005 10:12 PM


Re: Heavy metals
Forget about salt and gypsum--YECS will say they were light and
floated.
Negative my friend. Both are soluable in water and thus do not "float" either. Your heavy metal argument may be another nail in the coffin but evaporation in the middle of an ocean is unequivocally impossible.

No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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 Message 26 by Nighttrain, posted 08-31-2005 10:12 PM Nighttrain has replied

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 29 of 67 (239803)
09-01-2005 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Jazzns
09-01-2005 7:23 PM


Re: Heavy metals
Just trying to anticipate the opposition, Jazz. Y`see, with hydrological sorting the soluble evaporites `floated' and were the last to be deposited as the waters receded. Doesn`t explain buried evap. deposits. Hang on, it`s coming to me. The evaporites were deposited last as the waters receded, then a passing iceberg caused a giant wave of sediment to wash over and bury the deposite. QED. No limit to extreme ideas when you use wacky scenarios.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 30 of 67 (239806)
09-01-2005 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Nuggin
09-01-2005 7:20 PM


Re: Don't see it here, not about to go thread mining...
I`ve asked a few times for the Scritures covering Ice Ages, but, sob, no reply. A few creo websites speculate about icebergs floating around as the Flood receded, but never get around to glacier evidence. Can`t wait till we tackle massive surface impacts during/since the flood and where nuclear winters get a mention in the Bible.

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