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Author Topic:   Christianity: For entertainment purposes only?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4979 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 61 of 64 (469190)
06-04-2008 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by ICANT
06-04-2008 11:15 AM


Re: Self-Righteous Christians???
But the gospels ARE all anonymous, that is a fact. Your opinion, my opinion, or anyone else's opinion makes no difference, the four Gospels are anonymous.
The 'prediction' in Matthew 24:2 is not a prediction since it was written after 70 CE. Scholars, such as A. H. McNeile use this verse to propose the earliest possible date for the Gospel, and McNeile even proposes that the Gospel could have been written as late as 115 CE.
An intersting fact about 'Matthew's' Gospel is that the earliest mention of it is by Eusebius in the 4th century when he refers to this Gospel being identified as having been written by Matthew by Bishop Papias in th emid 2nd century. But, Papias claims that Matthew collected the stories of Jesus in Hebrew, and the Gospel of Matthew we have is in Greek and shows no signs of being translated from Hebrew. We may not even have the same Gospel today that the early churches used.
But the point stands, ALL four Gospels ARE anonymous and they were named a long time after the disciples died.
It is very easy to make a prediction AFTER the fact, the Bible is full of redacted texts, which is only one aspect that makes it intensely interesting.
But, check the anonimity of the gospels out for yourself, I have no axe to grind here as I specialise in the prehistory books of the OT and rarely get involved in NT discussions.
From the Lutterworth Bible Dictionary p558, The identification of this Gospel with Matthew the tax collector, though possible, is unproven. The Gospel is anonymous, even though for convenience it continues to be referred to as 'matthew'.
Cheers.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by ICANT, posted 06-04-2008 11:15 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by ICANT, posted 06-04-2008 2:28 PM Brian has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 62 of 64 (469206)
06-04-2008 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Brian
06-04-2008 12:33 PM


Re: Self-Righteous Christians???
Brian writes:
An intersting fact about 'Matthew's' Gospel is that the earliest mention of it is by Eusebius in the 4th century when he refers to this Gospel being identified as having been written by Matthew by Bishop Papias in th emid 2nd century. But, Papias claims that Matthew collected the stories of Jesus in Hebrew, and the Gospel of Matthew we have is in Greek and shows no signs of being translated from Hebrew. We may not even have the same Gospel today that the early churches used.
Wasn't Matthew's gospel translated from Hebrew into Greek by James the Less?
Is not Luke considered a historian and the book of Luke and Acts ascribed to him?
Irenaeus, Clement, Origen and Tertullian all believed Luke wrote both.
Luke traveled with Paul so his writings would date fairly early. So if Luke wrote the book of Luke it could not have been long after the disciples died.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Brian, posted 06-04-2008 12:33 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Brian, posted 06-05-2008 7:16 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 63 of 64 (469220)
06-04-2008 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ramoss
06-04-2008 11:52 AM


Re: Self-Righteous Christians???
ramoss writes:
Have you ever heard of 'making a prediction after the fact'. A great way to impress the gullible, by claiming you made a prediction before it happened, but only actually made the prediction after the fact.
Sure I see them claimed here quite often.
But they wrote a whole book of things that had already happen as if they had not happened yet with out slipping up once and letting it shine through that they were in fact speaking after the fact. Simply amazing.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ramoss, posted 06-04-2008 11:52 AM ramoss has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4979 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 64 of 64 (469349)
06-05-2008 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by ICANT
06-04-2008 2:28 PM


Re: Self-Righteous Christians???
Wasn't Matthew's gospel translated from Hebrew into Greek by James the Less?
I haven't heard that one but it isn't impossible. But, if James the Less did translate it from Hebrew into Greek then it is different to the gMat that we have as our one shows no signs of being translated from Hebrew, all scholars agree on this.
Is not Luke considered a historian and the book of Luke and Acts ascribed to him?
Indeed, although he wasn't a very good historian, but the keyword is 'ascribed', the books were simply allocated to Paul's companion. But technically speaking, the books were anonymous, they may well be correctly allocated to Luke, but no one knows for certain.
Irenaeus, Clement, Origen and Tertullian all believed Luke wrote both.
But that is a non-sequitur though isn't it? What they believed has no bearing on the truth, the books don't suddenly become Luke's just because some people believe they were his.
Luke traveled with Paul so his writings would date fairly early. So if Luke wrote the book of Luke it could not have been long after the disciples died.
And if Luke didn't write it?
However, I am not going to labour the point. I just find it a very interesting FACT that all four Gospels are anonymous works (that's why they are all headed with the words 'according to'), with the author's names allocated to them hundreds of years after the disciples died.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ICANT, posted 06-04-2008 2:28 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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