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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Mind's Eye (etc?) | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Tony650 Member (Idle past 4060 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
Just a bump for my mental "senses" list. Anybody want to add theirs? I'm curious to see how others rate their own.
I know the substance of my posts tends to get lost in their (my) verbose style, so here's a brief summary of the exercise. Rank each of your senses in order of their ease of mental replication. That is, how easy/difficult you find it to create their respective sensations in your mind. Also, if you are able to perceive your thoughts by any other methods please feel free to add them to the list, and explain them in any way you can. Once again, here are mine, listed in order from most easily imagined to least easily imagined. 1. Sight.2. Hearing. 3. Touch. 4. Taste. 5. Smell. 6. Other - None, so far as I can tell. The pertinent post is message #33 for any who wish to read it.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I'm not at all sure how to rate such things because I can't find any uniformity. For example, I can easily imagine the taste, feel and smell of a quarter slice lettuce salad with Russian Dressing that I had at the Lord Baltimore Hotel when I was six or so, or the full experience of driving Road Atlanta at speed, each place my head banged against the roll bar, the feel of clutch, brake and throttle instant to instant around the track, the tightness of the harness as I late brake going into 7a and b, the weight increase on the uphill back straight and the loss of weight as I crest the hill and pass under the bridge on the reverse camber run to the turn onto the front straight. The feel, sounds, sounds, smell, vision are all there. But what I had for lunch yesterday is a total blank.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sounds just like my dad. He could tell you how to fix a tractor that the neighbours had in 1928, but he couldn't tell you whether or not he had had lunch today.
I agree that the senses tend to run together. Like schrafinator pointed out, taste and smell are almost indistinguishable. When I try to recall something, or even imagine something that never happened, visual images seem to come easiest and aural images next. I find sensations of touch difficult to actively recall. On the other hand, when memories are spontaneous (which seems to be more frequently as time progresses) it is more of a total experience rather than individual senses. People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Let's see, my most easily imagined sensations:
1. action, motion, spatial relationships2. auditory 3. visual 4. tactile (actually, visual and tactile are kind of tied here) I don't tend to have any strong "images" of taste or smell -- I can recognize tastes and smells once they occur in real life, and I can remember the "adjectives" that describe them (yummy, salty, acrid, etc.) but I don't have a good memory for the sensations themselves. Also, I don't claim this is accurate. Like I said before, if an expert were to test me somehow, she might well come to the conclusion that visual images play a much greater role in my thinking than I realize -- I am only going by how it appears to me. An interesting side-note: although I do have fairly clear "images" of sound in my head, the sound of voices and so forth, it seems to be more like murmering -- I don't have exact, clear words in my head, even in the cases where I can recite, exactly, word-for-word some conversation or speech. Perhaps not related, I find that when I am trying to clarify my position and formulate an argument, like when I am trying to figure out how to respond to a post on this board, I often have to physically stop myself from muttering to myself audibly -- especially when I am walking along a public street.
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 505 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Tony writes: Is this truly as absolute as it sounds or do you just mean that you find it very, very difficult?... if I were to ask you to describe your parents to me, or brothers, sisters, a friend, etc, are you really saying that you don't "see" their faces in your mind? I've been trying for many years now and I still can't picture my parents' and siblings' faces, let alone describing them. It's not a dumb question. I have found that not many people are like myself. This is probably why I am not good at all with mental math. I can't even say out the quadratic formula without writing it down first, look at it, and say it out loud... and I have it memorized since middle school. I know all the kinematic equations but I always have to write them all out on the board when I do a lecture session (I usually pretend that they are on the board to help my students). This is why I didn't like my high school calculus teacher. Back then, he made each one of us stand up and say out loud all the trig ID's, functions, intergrals, derivitives, etc. I always stumbled through them. Sometimes I even had to use my finger to write in thin air to help me say them out loud... and I ended up with a 5 on the AP exam.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
I was a small part of the discussion of "perception of color" at the Truth is Relative topic. That reminded me of this topic, which may be the better place for such discussion.
In re-reading this topic, I discovered a message I had not answered:
Ringo writes: Do you dream in colour? What I dreamed and what I remember dreaming may be two different things. At this point all my recollections of dreams past are pretty much completely gone. My general impression is that I dream in vague soft focus black & white. Perhaps a fair share of the dreams are rather abstract. Sometimes I'll go for many days (weeks?) with no recollection of having had any dreams. I have heard that dreaming connects up to long term memory formation. Perhaps why I am memory deficient is that I'm also dream deficient.
Are you good at trivia? I certainly know a lot of trivial things, such as music factoids. But again, I'll mention that my memory seems to be generally poor, both short and longer term. I have a geology bachelors degree (completed in '83), but I suspect I now remember only a tiny fraction of what I was exposed to.
Do songs run through your head? Not really. I can sort of recreate fragments of certain favorite tunes. There were two college classes I had particularly hard times with. The first was historical geology (stratigraphy and structure). A lot of raw data memorization. I also had a terrible time with the second term of calculus. I just couldn't remember much of what came before, to build on. Now, I remember essentially nothing about calculus. To me, it was the greatest waste of time and money of my life. In the context of even "Great Debates" I'm involved in - I find I really have to go back and reread upthread a lot. Heck, even in preparing this message, what I just wrote at the top is pretty vague. Moose Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for ” but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Zawi Member (Idle past 3658 days) Posts: 126 From: UK Joined: |
When I first wake up I'm better at visualising things, such as equations, and I can try solve equations with some effort in my head. But by the middle of the day my brain becomes disagreeable and stops me from imagining things, I don't know why because it didn't always used to be so disagreeable.
I'm pretty good at remembering certain types of visual information, for example I can draw a pretty good political world map from memory, with most of the countries roughly in place (I also draw out the States of America as though they were seperate countries for fun), but I can't visualise any of this in my head. I can visualise it for about a split second as I put pen to paper, but I can't just close my eyes and see the world map before me, so I'm not sure what process is taking place that enables me to do this. So I'm not sure how good at visualising I really am. Edited by Zawi, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Zawi writes: (I also draw out the States of America as though they were seperate countries for fun), but I can't visualise any of this in my head. I can name the 50 states by visualizing the map and counting on my fingers - but if I miss one, it's almost impossible to figure out which one. (I can also name most of the state capitals by "replaying" what I've heard on Jeopardy, etc.) “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Look Deep Into the Mind's Eye
quote: More at the cite. Quoting my message 1:
This is intended as a little exploration of how minds work. Now, I have what I think to be an exceptionally bad memory. I have a terrible time remembering names and faces, etc. The "minds eye" part:The story goes, that some people have photographic memories. Well, so do I, but there's no film. I ask members - Can you close your eyes, think of something you have seen, and bring up a mental image? Do you have a "photograph in your head"? My understanding is that various people can do this, at least to some degree. I can not. I just have a dark screen. So, what's in your "minds eye"? I do occasionally have "mind's eye" images, but they seem to be pretty rare and quite brief. Also, such seem to be random events and not something I can "do on command". Moose Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4668 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
I never knew this could an aptitude that you could 'lose' or even not have.
my mind's eye is OK I guess. When it happens randomly it's usually when a hear a song I listened to a lot while doing something. When I hear the song, I ''see'' what I was doing (usually video games from when I was younger)
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
I'm like that building surveyor I guess. I can do all the things mentioned in that article. It's quite nice. I think this also comes with a vivid imagination. I can build images in my head when I read books, for instance, they're quite realistic. What I would like to mention though is that I can also do this with my eyes open. It's clearer when I close them, but open eyes does the trick as well.
I also have that thing Slevesque mentions, when hearing music, I think about games I used to play to that music. All in all an interesting ability.
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4668 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
You mentionning mental images while reading reminds me something I found quite interesting a 3-4 years ago.
Ever read the book ''perfume'' ? I had to read it when I was in secondary 5 (11th grade a think) . It's the story of this guy who has this incredible sense of smell, and in fact the whole novel is based around that idea. The narrator describes everything through the sense of smell, and so if the main character enters a room, it won't say ''the walls were white'' but it will instead say ''the walls had the odor of rotten cheese in them''. Now, a year after me and all my friends had read the book, they made a movie out of it. What was interesting was that every friend that saw the movie said that it was almost exactly how they had envisioned it. Myself included. In other words, this very peculiar manner of describing things in the book had projected the very same images in our minds. Which is radically different from the usual, where everybody reads a book, imagines it totally differently, goes to see the movie and find it to not be like they imagined it. Although I have never found an answer of why this is the case.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Ever read the book ''perfume'' That's imaginary, isn't it? That was one of the two reasons why I never read it. It imagines a condition that (so far as I know) no human being has ever experienced. This may be clever, but it provides us with no insight into the human condition.
Now, a year after me and all my friends had read the book, they made a movie out of it. What was interesting was that every friend that saw the movie said that it was almost exactly how they had envisioned it. Myself included. In other words, this very peculiar manner of describing things in the book had projected the very same images in our minds. [...] Although I have never found an answer of why this is the case. Well apart from anything else, because it wasn't true. You weren't actually reading a book written by someone who really did experience his world primarily through his sense of smell. Such a book doesn't exist. Such a person doesn't exist. You were reading a book by an admittedly gifted novelist who may have had a severe head-cold throughout the writing of the novel and never smelled anything. The narrator does not exist, and never did exist.
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4668 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
That's imaginary, isn't it? That was one of the two reasons why I never read it. It imagines a condition that (so far as I know) no human being has ever experienced. This may be clever, but it provides us with no insight into the human condition. I consider it a must-read for anybody who is interested by litterature. But I don't really get what you are trying to say.
Well apart from anything else, because it wasn't true. You weren't actually reading a book written by someone who really did experience his world primarily through his sense of smell. Such a book doesn't exist. Such a person doesn't exist. You were reading a book by an admittedly gifted novelist who may have had a severe head-cold throughout the writing of the novel and never smelled anything. And this is why I find the situation very interesting. Books that describe places with visual references, in other words with the primary sense we use to examine our surroundings, rarely gives two person the same mental images. Yet this book, when describing the places (and the characters, etc.) with the sense of smell, our sense that is almost never our primary one for describing our surroundings, produces the same mental images for almost everybody.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
slevesque writes:
No, but I've seen the movie.
You mentionning mental images while reading reminds me something I found quite interesting a 3-4 years ago. Ever read the book ''perfume'' ? I had to read it when I was in secondary 5 (11th grade a think) . It's the story of this guy who has this incredible sense of smell, and in fact the whole novel is based around that idea. The narrator describes everything through the sense of smell, and so if the main character enters a room, it won't say ''the walls were white'' but it will instead say ''the walls had the odor of rotten cheese in them''. Now, a year after me and all my friends had read the book, they made a movie out of it. What was interesting was that every friend that saw the movie said that it was almost exactly how they had envisioned it. Myself included.
I'm wit Dr. A on this one. This is because no human has ever experienced something like this. This makes you envision it like the writer tells it, which is very limited, because no one knows what it's really like. This makes it easier to come up with the same "images" in your mind. In other words, this very peculiar manner of describing things in the book had projected the very same images in our minds. Which is radically different from the usual, where everybody reads a book, imagines it totally differently, goes to see the movie and find it to not be like they imagined it. Although I have never found an answer of why this is the case. Look at it this way. When describing the world as seen through "ordinary" senses, we all experience it a bit differently, so we get different images from other people. But now, add an "extra-ordinary" sense, and nobody knows what it's like, so all you have to go on is the author's description.
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