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Author Topic:   Wyatt's Museum and the shape of Noah's Ark
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 226 of 303 (105046)
05-03-2004 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Bonobojones
05-03-2004 6:34 PM


Re: sea anchor, sea anchor run
One thing that has always intrigued me is that the description of the ARK is far closer to that of a house than any vessel. But has anyone seen just how well houses do as naval water craft when caught in a flood?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 6:34 PM Bonobojones has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 6:50 PM jar has not replied

Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 227 of 303 (105049)
05-03-2004 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by jar
05-03-2004 6:41 PM


Re: sea anchor, sea anchor run
Almost as good as whatever's submarine ark.
Ye gads! I can't stand it!
Remember the song, "They're Coming to Take Me Away! Ha Ha!"?
They're coming to take me away,
Haha, they're coming to take me away,
Ho ho, hee hee, ha ha,
To the funny farm
Where Life is Beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see
Those Nice Young Men
In their Clean White Coats
And they're coming to take me AWAY,
HA HAAAAA
Poor guy must've been trying to talk sense to a Arkologist!

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by jar, posted 05-03-2004 6:41 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 7:56 PM Bonobojones has replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5668 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 228 of 303 (105062)
05-03-2004 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Bonobojones
05-03-2004 6:50 PM


I'm not a marine engineer or anything, only basing my reasonings on the trout, which only faces into the current, so the anchor stones could only be off the bow, if Noah was building an ark off marine design(an ark), knowing these anchor stones would sink into the slower currents below the waves blown by the wind, so the arks bow would continually need to face into the currents, like a trout barely wiggling a fin to maintain position, the anchor stones maintained the position of the ark in the rising waters above, till the waters flowed off the earth, but even here, the currents would of been slower deeper below the ark, allowing the bow to continue to face into the current like the trout, not getting carried away by the current, etc...
P.S. Think what your all saying is that parachute anchors act as a sea brake, cause the waves are not actually moving, but is slowing he boat being blown by the wind (but no reason to believe the ark was a high rider, being blown by the wind), if so then the little wave currents on the ark would only keep the ark pointed into the current, no great stresses on the anchor stone ropes, until they snagged breaking from their ropes when the ark grounded in the mountains of Ararat, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 6:50 PM Bonobojones has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 05-03-2004 8:01 PM johnfolton has replied
 Message 231 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 8:50 PM johnfolton has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 229 of 303 (105064)
05-03-2004 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by johnfolton
05-03-2004 7:56 PM


Re:
Whatever
What we are saying is that the ARK
  • would not float
  • would not hold the animals
  • would not hold together in a sea
  • and would break apart before it could come agound unless it came to rest on a perfectly level substructure
  • the stones were not sea anchors
  • the stones are not related to the ARK
We are saying, it never happened.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 7:56 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 8:19 PM jar has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5668 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 230 of 303 (105066)
05-03-2004 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by jar
05-03-2004 8:01 PM


jar, You have every right to believe what ever makes sense to you, I don't agree, so were just agreeing to disagree. If the japanese buoy would of sunk, but they don't, "quite interesting", Noah had iron and bronze available for strengthening the keel, stress area, and if they were able to increase the air pressure within the ark, it solves all other problems, etc...
P.S. It wasn't like the hull was being pounded by the waves (wasn't a tri-hull pounding vessel), if it was a low rider, wouldn't be excessive stresses on the hull. You do realize the chinese built vessels that floated believed longer than the ark, etc...
NOVA Online | Sultan's Lost Treasure | Ancient Chinese Explorers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 05-03-2004 8:01 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Tennessee R, posted 06-03-2006 3:37 PM johnfolton has not replied

Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 303 (105072)
05-03-2004 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by johnfolton
05-03-2004 7:56 PM


Re:
The sea anchor holds the bow into the waves, yes.
Rocks are a sea anchor, no.
It is wind and waves that act upon a hull. A low-rider, as you so eloquently put it, means low freeboard and will be swamped, submerged and pounded to death. Please, before you come back with any more stupid statements, pick up a book on boat design, yacht design or naval architecture. Hydrodynamics is hydrodynamics. reality is reality.
Your dangling rocks would be acting like a pendulum, effecting the stability in a negative manner.
Tell you what. Build yourself a scale model of your idea of the ark. Plank on frame or bread and butter construction, your choice. Dangle a bunch of rocks under it, take it to a large pool and get as many fat kids as you can find to jump cannonballs around it, then report back. Video would be nice. Oh, yeah, don't forget the giant fans to simulate the wicked winds the immense fetch would generate.
Ah, why do I bother.
OK, yer right. All my training is wrong. I'm gonna go home and destroy all my design work. (even though they all float fine)Dangling rocks! Yeah, that's the ticket! Rocks!! HHEEEHEEEEHEEEEE!(time for the thorazine)
BTW you do, of course, have some primary source you can cite for the gigantic Chinese vessels and how they were built, eh.
Try looking here and learning something
http://www.amazon.com/...=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-0905774-5555268
[This message has been edited Bonobojones, 05-03-2004]
[This message has been edited Bonobojones, 05-03-2004]

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 7:56 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 9:28 PM Bonobojones has replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5668 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 232 of 303 (105088)
05-03-2004 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Bonobojones
05-03-2004 8:50 PM


Bonobojones, Throw out all your manuals on ship building, the ark wasn't built off your designs but off fluid dynamics of an ark, if the sea anchors were off the bow side, they wouldn't act as a pendulum, but as a brake, there had to be some current on the surface, it would take much, to keep the bow into the wind surface current, with a sea anchor of stones densities that would sink below the currents, etc...
P.S. Ron Wyatt said ancient mediterranean sea vessels used rock sea anchors, but a whole lot smaller than the ones used on the ark, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 8:50 PM Bonobojones has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 9:35 PM johnfolton has replied
 Message 234 by Coragyps, posted 05-03-2004 9:36 PM johnfolton has not replied

Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 233 of 303 (105093)
05-03-2004 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by johnfolton
05-03-2004 9:28 PM


Re:
Sailors of antiquity used rocks as anchors. As in to anchor the boat. They were very inefficent, so the Romans developed the ancestor of the fluked anchor.
Hydrodynamics of an ark??? What pray tell, is that? Can you show a source so I may enlighten myself?

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 9:28 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 10:03 PM Bonobojones has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 812 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 234 of 303 (105094)
05-03-2004 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by johnfolton
05-03-2004 9:28 PM


Re:
Ron Wyatt said ancient mediterranean sea vessels used rock sea anchors,
And Ron Wyatt was more full of shit than the porta-potties at the Indianapolis 500 during a cholera epidemic, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 9:28 PM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 05-03-2004 9:38 PM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 236 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 9:38 PM Coragyps has not replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 235 of 303 (105095)
05-03-2004 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Coragyps
05-03-2004 9:36 PM


Re: Ron Wyatt
Was Ron Wyatt a Clavinist?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Coragyps, posted 05-03-2004 9:36 PM Coragyps has not replied

Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 303 (105096)
05-03-2004 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Coragyps
05-03-2004 9:36 PM


Re:
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. Now that's funny. Sadly true, but funny.

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Coragyps, posted 05-03-2004 9:36 PM Coragyps has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5668 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 237 of 303 (105100)
05-03-2004 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Bonobojones
05-03-2004 9:35 PM


Bonobojones, What have I been talking about, how come a trout with little effort maintains position in a fast moving stream of water calmly feeding, how come a dolphin can jump out of the water's, how is it possible for a coho salmon to swim up extreme rapids, are they defying gravity?, I mean the tail is less wide, think it would be like swimming into an incredible forces, or is it that because of fluid dynamics that a vaccum or something develops on the wider side of the fish, and the waters flow around the tail helping propel the coho forward, etc...
P.S. I mean we all know water in motion is a current, but the coho is not only swimming into the current, he is swimming up hill through incredible rapids, you never see the tail going first, like you all go about your sea anchors, turn tail and through out the sea anchors, the coho goes onward and upward, never turning tail and running with the flow, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Bonobojones, posted 05-03-2004 9:35 PM Bonobojones has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by RAZD, posted 05-04-2004 1:09 AM johnfolton has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 238 of 303 (105122)
05-04-2004 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by johnfolton
05-03-2004 10:03 PM


Stones are for Broaches
Or it has something to do with fish being alive, possessing energy the expend on propulsion systems and senses to orient themselves in the flow, know how to use a back eddy, and are there on purpose (food), not where they sleep ... possibly ...
The problem with the dangling stones is that the direction of drag they exert is only along the rope, ie - perpendicular to line of force of the wind and wave. Ever watch a boat at anchor surge back and forth? That is with scope on the anchor rode, try it with a vertical rope. By the time the stone's drag force comes into effect the boat is broached and rolling. Throw in the forward movement of the ark over the stones as it comes off the top of a wave before running into the trough and you now have the stones pulling in the same direction as the next wave\wind, bow stops, stern keeps going = broach city at every wave.
Additionally, the stones being much denser than the ark likely have less resistance to movement than the hull, so they will continue to hang nearly straight down as the bow is driven off the desired alignment and unable to stop it once the broaching starts.
Whatever you think is accomplished by the stones in terms of boat trim and balance can be accomplished by location of the load inside, therefore there is no benefit to the stones for trim or balance. This is also a better way to handle it because you can change it when you need to. The stones are in an unreachable location - this is something sailors avoid when life depends on it.
Inescapable conclusion: stones hung from ropes are a very bad idea.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by johnfolton, posted 05-03-2004 10:03 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 240 by johnfolton, posted 05-04-2004 9:29 AM RAZD has replied

Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 303 (105126)
05-04-2004 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by RAZD
05-04-2004 1:09 AM


Re: Stones are for Broaches
Maybe we should give up. After all, he has all the true answers.

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by RAZD, posted 05-04-2004 1:09 AM RAZD has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5668 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 240 of 303 (105168)
05-04-2004 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by RAZD
05-04-2004 1:09 AM


Don't get bent, its just a theory, based off the sciences, etc...
Raz, I don't see the stones as being straight down, because it will be acting as a sea brake too. The ark being massive and not a tri-hull would be cutting through the waves, the wave energies parting around the ark bow, etc...
P.S. I see the sea anchors being that rudder that keeps the ark pointed into the current, though if the boat was built like most boats today, it would of been a high floater, don't think thats how the ark was designed, it was built to be an ark (part fish, its own ventilation system, natural water and waste disposal system, adjustable water ballast, etc...), not a normal boat(had no rudder, wasn't something tossed to and fro by the wind and waves), etc... If you would just think about it, a boat capable of surviving a world flood, would it be a low rider, or a high rider, common sense seems to rule in favor of water ballasts so it would ride lower in the water, so it wouldn't be blown across the surface of the waters by the winds, (fishermen understand this principle, why they throw weights near the hook on a windy day to slow bobber drift), the anchor stones would of been the only way to insure that the ark never was going to be pounded in the sides by the waves, sea anchors act as a self aligning rudder, without power and without the sea anchors, the ark would of been at the mercy of the waves, because it will pound a boat without mercy from the sides (creating leaks, until the ark sunk), unless its arked shape is continually cutting into the waves, etc...Without the anchor stones the ark would of sunk because the waves would of pounded the hull, instead of smoothly flowing around the sides, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by RAZD, posted 05-04-2004 1:09 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by RAZD, posted 05-04-2004 10:05 AM johnfolton has replied

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