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Author Topic:   Wyatt's Museum and the shape of Noah's Ark
SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 303 (103290)
04-28-2004 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by johnfolton
04-27-2004 10:14 PM


Re: More good ideas!
This is crazy talk! First of all, the only way an ocean going vessel of the size and displacement of the "ARK" can structurally function, is to have a steel hull..NOT WOOD! Wood does NOT have the material properties necessary (I forget the cubits) to support the weight and stresses imparted on the structure (from it's OWN weight). Engineering TODAY cannot build such a vessel out of wood and nails that will hold together much less float. Discounting the obvious oversights in weight and mass for all the animals, a wood hull would be breached in minutes...it would sink before anybody even thought about turning a pump on.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by coffee_addict, posted 04-28-2004 2:09 AM SRO2 has replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 303 (103349)
04-28-2004 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by coffee_addict
04-28-2004 2:09 AM


Re: More good ideas!
I know, when all else fails, bring in the "God factor"..,I was expecting it. It's always the last line of defense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by coffee_addict, posted 04-28-2004 2:09 AM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 303 (103516)
04-28-2004 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by RAZD
04-28-2004 4:35 PM


Re: More incomplete muddled and incredibly convoluted unnecessary ideas!
if you can give me the cubits (with conversion to footage)...I can reasonably calculate by displacement and weight distribution with only a few allowed givens (Lapping seams etc.) and I will do opposite my training and be liberal with the accounting...the amount of daily leakage that would require pumping ou of the hold (water only)...I promise you it will be ugly even if I'm liberal.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by JonF, posted 04-28-2004 7:36 PM SRO2 has replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 158 of 303 (103533)
04-28-2004 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by JonF
04-28-2004 7:36 PM


Re: More incomplete muddled and incredibly convoluted unnecessary ideas!
WOW! That was impressive....reckon where Noah got his hands on some 27.5' screws?...it doesn't matter, it would collapse under it's own weight anyway...wood is terribly unforgiving in large structures...thats why they invented steel reinforced concrete.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by johnfolton, posted 04-28-2004 9:13 PM SRO2 has replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 303 (103547)
04-28-2004 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by johnfolton
04-28-2004 9:13 PM


Well...
dude you are talking to a bona-fide rocket scientist aerospace engineer. There is NO comarison to shoring up mines with timbers at 14.7 psi to the pressure differential for water displacement at that same pressure...lets try a new approach to the problem (I think outside the box) could a wooden ark be built that could travel in a vacuum (space)...for the same reasons one can't be built to withstand pressure, one couldn't be built to hold pressure...yeah, I'm good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by johnfolton, posted 04-28-2004 9:13 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by johnfolton, posted 04-28-2004 11:14 PM SRO2 has replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 303 (103567)
04-28-2004 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by johnfolton
04-28-2004 11:14 PM


Ahhhh...
this goes back to my days when I finally convinced the other engineers and architects, that they couldn't build the Empire State building out of pine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by johnfolton, posted 04-28-2004 11:14 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by johnfolton, posted 04-28-2004 11:55 PM SRO2 has replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 303 (103590)
04-29-2004 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by johnfolton
04-28-2004 11:55 PM


Re: Ahhhh...
It's probably not true, what caused the collapse was the buckling of the steel girders from the intense heat given of by the burning jet fuel, structurally, steel becomes extremely week under heat and loads...steel reinforced concrete impregnated with asbestos to absorb heat might have held up...but I doubt it..it would take advanced fracture mechanics and heat/load transfer equations to prevent a scenario that they couldn't have seen comming in the intitial design (laymans terms, the buildings would have had to be desiged to withstand the impact of a commercial jet liner in the first place, which didn't happen).

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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 303 (103627)
04-29-2004 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by RAZD
04-29-2004 1:21 AM


Re: Well... how about back on topic eh?
Are you sure you weren't an engineer in another life?

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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 303 (104438)
04-30-2004 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Bonobojones
04-30-2004 9:45 PM


My vast experience in sailing and boating (canoes and tiny sunfish sailboats)...tells me that stringing a bunch of rocks under anything of the sort will make it unsteerable. Current alone could drag on the "Ballast" and could bring a vessel broadways to the wind and waves (a very, very bad thing).

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 Message 192 by Bonobojones, posted 04-30-2004 9:45 PM Bonobojones has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 10:10 PM SRO2 has replied
 Message 197 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 10:22 PM SRO2 has replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 200 of 303 (104455)
04-30-2004 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by johnfolton
04-30-2004 10:22 PM


You're completely ignoring currents. Currents aren't affected by surface wind (and the resultant waves)...current can flow HARD against the wind and waves (they can actually be many, many times stronger), a sea anchor won't work with a current flowing opposite the wind...a strong current will pull the anchor(s) in front of you if you don't have sail (or some type of power) and drag you (or could at least likely reach force equalibrium and turn you broadside).

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 Message 197 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 10:22 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 11:36 PM SRO2 has replied
 Message 203 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 11:48 PM SRO2 has replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 202 of 303 (104461)
04-30-2004 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by johnfolton
04-30-2004 11:36 PM


Whatever
You guys are trying to apply "TODAYS" technology to thousands of years ago...it just doesn't "wash" (good one), they didn't have our thechnology thousands of years ago...well except for maytag washers...they had them, but there was only single pronged outlets and receptacles, both male (it was some confusing times).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 11:36 PM johnfolton has not replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 204 of 303 (104465)
05-01-2004 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by johnfolton
04-30-2004 11:48 PM


I know what you mean, I've seen renderings of the ark that was just a flat surface slightly above the water level, but your scenario only makes it more difficult for an engineer to conceive...we can't build a ship like that today...it won't work, we don't have the technology to do it..it's the same reasons (to numerous to list, but if you wish, I will) the empire state building couldn't be made of pine. Wood doesn't do well under extreme loads, neither in tension nor compression. Thats why heavy construction isn't done with wood, they don't make things like queen Mary's, barges, aircraft carriers and subs out of wood, it's just not a good load bearing material.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 11:48 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by johnfolton, posted 05-01-2004 12:40 AM SRO2 has not replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 303 (104520)
05-01-2004 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by johnfolton
04-30-2004 10:10 PM


They don't hang ballast outside of boats for the same reason they don't hang the luggage outside airplanes to maintain CG...it creates uncontrollable drag.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by johnfolton, posted 04-30-2004 10:10 PM johnfolton has not replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 303 (105331)
05-04-2004 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Bonobojones
05-04-2004 6:32 PM


It's the 2 ton square wheel syndrome
It'll work! It's gotta' work! A 4,000lb. square wheel WILL roll if you find a steep enough grade and get a block and tackle, some pry bars, a chainfall, a few dozen strong men, two logs and three come-alongs...A 2 TON SQUARE WHEEL WILL ROLL BY-GOD!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Bonobojones, posted 05-04-2004 6:32 PM Bonobojones has not replied

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