Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Gay marraige and the end of the world
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 121 of 195 (279585)
01-16-2006 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by jar
01-16-2006 11:38 PM


Re: Yet you support oppression
Why would Jesus want to deny someone health care?
Because he was suicidal, gay, and has an iligitamate child.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by jar, posted 01-16-2006 11:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 01-16-2006 11:44 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 125 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-17-2006 12:15 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 122 of 195 (279586)
01-16-2006 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 11:41 PM


Re: Yet you support oppression
jar askes:
Why would Jesus want to deny someone health care?
to which riVeRraT replies:
Because he was suicidal, gay, and has an iligitamate child.
You're right RR, the Jesus you worship is NOT the one I worship.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 11:41 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 123 of 195 (279588)
01-17-2006 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 11:05 PM


Re: History
I will be honest, and say I can not understand two men or woman wanting to be together. I just don't get it, and it has not been explained to me in a way that I can get it. That is what I am in search of.
i had a best girl friend. she dumped me for her church. or something. we were just friends. but we lived together in college. she was my whole entire world. half of my vocabulary is made up of weird quirky things she did or said. my favourite nickname is one she gave me. she filled me with life. i would have married her in a heartbeat.
i don't consider myself gay. i don't really consider myself straight though. i date who i choose. it's never been a girl though. and i've only kissed a girl once (not my friend). and i was very drunk and very naked in a pool at a very drunk college party. it was. unsatisfying. i like to think i'd feel free to love whomever i decided. though i have a mild aversion to dating a girl because i don't really want to get the comments i'd get from guys. they're disgusting and i really don't like being a sex-object.
but yes. i didn't think about her that way at the time but she was cute. and i'm reasonably attracted to women. i'd slip her the goldfish. (it's from a movie.)
of course now she just really makes me angry and empty. (we have mutual friends.) but i'd have squished the whole entire world into a golden goblet to give it to her. and being away from her tears me apart inside and out.
maybe you can't imagine a woman wanting to be with a woman or a man wanting to be with a man. but it's really just like a woman wanting to be with a man... minus (or plus) the penis thing.
Wiping your ass after you shit is important, but he didn't explain that one either, maybe all Christians should stop wiping.
It was common place for the time. You can't study the bible, or reach for verses, unless you try to understand the times.
you know what else was commonplace at the time? or was that too early for trepanning?
I agree, are you professing that gay marriage is the answer?
no. i'm professing that you leave schraf and her marriage alone.
BS. Don;t make claims unless you are going to back them up. Show me, and give me a chance to defend myself. I would love for you to show inconsistancy, then I could make an effort to change it.
...
oh please someone else do this. i got shit to do. i can't be repeating myself like this. i mean. if nothing else the technology thing. just tell me you don't watch reality tv. cause i'm sure jesus doesn't like voyeurism.
Come on, its just another example of how gay people are trying to change the history books, to increase the subtlty of the gradual.
oh yeah. worldwide gay conspiracy. just like the jews.
That is a whole other subject, having sex without having a child.
Since thats how we evolved, what gives us the right to have sex, without expecting a baby afterwards?
It's common f-ing sense. You know it, I know it, everyone here in this forum knows it, if you screw, there is a chance that a baby will pop out. What gives the right to screw without expecting it?
I know, lets cut our balls off, then we won't have babies. Going against the very thing that got us here.
Please try to understand how open I am about this. I put down the very thing I did, and that was get a vasectomy. But I did father 3 kids. however, there is some regret about it. I do feel selfish about it to an extent.
I just wanted to have sex without having a baby. I want to screw, and screw over and over again, without having anymore rugrats to take care of.
I was only thinking of myself.
have you read song of solomon? it's not about squeezing out kids. having a vasectomy after you have 5 kids (you said 5 earlier. even if they aren't yours, you seem to support them) is RESPONSIBLE PARENTING. it's hard enough providing for one child in this country. two is crazy. 5 is right out. you were respectful to your wife that she's not a factory and to your children by not creating more mouths than could be provided for. you're not being selfish at all.
i have a book you should read. it's a dangerous atheist book *boogey boogey* jared diamond - the third chimpanzee. i know i push it on everyone, but it's a great book. it talks about how human sexuality is more effective at creating emotional bonds than at creating offspring. and if you've had sex (which you clearly have) i'm sure you know what emotional bonds he's talking about.
So where does your moral base come from?
I am sure it comes from some of what you just put down.
WTF does W have to do with any of this?
W has to do with me being funny.
my moral base. well. i really don't know. it's kind of a hodgepodge but a lot has to do with locke and some crazy guys in philly and a few other stuffy old thinky-types. my moral code is based on what i desire and the understanding that i bet other people want things pretty similar to me. namely any freedom that doesn't directly infringe on another person's freedom. hammurabi and all that crap. no killing, no lying, no stealing. stuff like that. of course i'm kind of a hippie so i'm not so big on private property. but that doesn't mean i go taking people's stuff. just means i don't keep crap i don't need lying around.
but since i live in the dear old states, i think it's pretty reasonable to base my morals on the documents that conceived our nation. the bible is not one of those. however. jesus was a nifty dude. and i'm awful fond of the beatitudes. the ten commandments are pretty good. once you get past that crazy god stuff that infringes on other peoples' right to their god or not god. i don't like paul, though. i think he was hateful and disgusting. and since i don't believe in biblical inerrancy, i don't have to like him. i like buddhism a bit. but i've not gotten much into it. i intend to amend this. but i've got about 400 books i already have to read in the next 7 years. i's busy.
I understand how black people became black, but I don't understand how gay people got gay.
Also witnessing people turn from gay to straight leaves me to wonder. But I am limited to how much I could possibly understand about it.
Also witnessing people turn from straight to gay, after a bad experience in life, leads me to believe that it could purely be an emotional thing, not a pyhsical one.
well. clearly since emotions are emotional and love is classified as an emotion. it's about how we connect to people and who we feel safe connecting to and who we want to connect to and who we best connect with.
i don't understand it either, but i understand it more than i understand straight people. i mean. we're all supposed to have best friends of the same sex right? what is your spouse supposed to be but your very best friend?
Die of starvation?
Please, maybe her child was going to be the one to solve the world hunger problem.
don't have much faith in the providence of god over the will of man do you? and the only solution to world hunger outside of technology (which you've already said you don't trust) is controlled population.
Feeding starving children is not a moral based on technology. It's using technology to support a moral that is already in place. That moral is to help the needy.
Nice try at twisting my words.
What came first, the moral or the technology? (chilcken or egg?)
yes but what about the moral of endless expansion? that is fed be technology. there's no more land. there's no new world. this is all we've got and we're squandering it. and you defend continued overpopulation because we have the possibility to feed them all? i am all about feeding starving children. but i'm also for controlling birthrates in tandem with efforts to feed what already is. and no i don't think we should only control birthrates in underdeveloped, underprovided areas. hence i'm proud that you quit your reproduction when you did. biblical standards of endless numbers of children were from a time when infant mortality rates were much higher and the world's population wasn't near a dangerous climax. we hit a peak once before. because of the way we were living and our technology of the time, the black plague in the middle ages was a symptom of population dynamics. too many people were living too closely in too bad of conditions. what's next and does it have to hit before people will get it that we can't all have 3-14 kids? what if it's this crazy bird flu? two children will maintain the current population and more than break your wallet. one child will allow a drop in population and allow you to devote even more love and resources to it. maybe if we can get everyone in the world to just have two kids then we'll be okay. but so many people are convinced that not having as many kids as possible is some kind of mortal sin. i just don't get it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 11:05 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by arachnophilia, posted 01-17-2006 12:41 AM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 180 by riVeRraT, posted 02-01-2006 5:57 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 124 of 195 (279589)
01-17-2006 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 11:40 PM


Re: i'm not angry
Evidence that gay couples are prone to the same struggles as straights.
evidence that you don't pay very close attention to anything.
google the word brenna
and the word kimi
yes it's a pen name. but still.
oh and if you have a minute. look left. yeah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 11:40 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 125 of 195 (279590)
01-17-2006 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 11:41 PM


Re: Yet you support oppression
please tell me you're kidding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 11:41 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by riVeRraT, posted 01-17-2006 8:22 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 126 of 195 (279591)
01-17-2006 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 11:16 PM


i hope you're not serious rr
I am searching for honest answers.
I want to know if I am a bigot, and I am wrong, and I want it explained to me in a way that makes sense, not an insulting, and imature way.
I have stuck up for gays in my op.
I have open up my inner most feelings, so it can be delt with.
that's all well and good. i've kind of avoided answering here because i've got you in the great debate as well, and i'm not really into the dog-pile game. especially since i really do think you're trying here. but you play to a couple really really common fallacies here, ones i see repeated alot.
secular nation? Give me a break.
quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
this was a pretty common way to express the concept of natural rights in the 1700's. had they wanted to say "jesus" i'm sure they would have -- people weren't exactly squeemish about it then. the abscence of the specific, in this case, should lead on to believe they did not intend any specific religious connotation.
we've had a few threads about this before; you're welcome to go and look at what we've covered there. many of the founding documents of the nation (ie: the constitution, as opposed to the declaration of independence) explicitly state that government should stay out of religion, as do many founding fathers. even the ones that went to church.
I want to marry a monkey, can we make it legal?
a monkey is not a human being. it cannot sign a marriage licence, or express in human language its consent.
It's just as bad as a man wanting to be a woman, and then having a sex change operation.
WTF gives him the right to change his sex?
technology, and thats it.
Your telling me, if he was born 1000 years ago, he would have to suffer, and be a man?
well, to paraphrase the declaration, the rights given to him by his creator: free will.
there are a lot of things in this world that rely on technology that you're not against. you're reading this post on a few of them right now. and what gives us the right to stay up past sunset anyway? the electric lightbulb, or maybe fire, but that's about it. not all technology is neccessarily evil. technology lets us help the sick, feed the hungry, and generally live the lives we do. if it makes someone happier with their body, why is that wrong? or any of our business?
in another post or two:
jar writes:
Why would Jesus want to deny someone health care?
Because he was suicidal, gay, and has an iligitamate child.
jesus seemed to be the inclusive sort. he preached to people that were excluded from the temple, the undesirables. i don't think jesus would have been about denying anyone anything. so when jar says we're worshipping different jesus's, that's why. we can't see jesus NOT having compassion, and NOT helping those in need.
Evidence that gay couples are prone to the same struggles as straights.
when brennakimi refers to her boyfriend, it's because she is indeed straight and is dating a member of the opposite sex.
i will vouch for the fact that she really is female, and i'm pretty certain she was born that way.
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 01-17-2006 12:50 AM

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 11:16 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 8:30 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 127 of 195 (279592)
01-17-2006 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by macaroniandcheese
01-17-2006 12:13 AM


Re: History
and i've only kissed a girl once (not my friend). and i was very drunk and very naked in a pool at a very drunk college party. it was. unsatisfying.
twice, dear. i have pictures of the other time somewhere...

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-17-2006 12:13 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-17-2006 9:07 AM arachnophilia has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 128 of 195 (279601)
01-17-2006 4:06 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 11:16 PM


Re: Yet you support oppression
It's just as bad as a man wanting to be a woman, and then having a sex change operation.
WTF gives him the right to change his sex?
technology, and thats it.
Your telling me, if he was born 1000 years ago, he would have to suffer, and be a man?
well just as a side-note many cultures allowed men to become women, to take up female duties, OT but interesting
This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 01-17-2006 04:07 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 11:16 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by riVeRraT, posted 01-17-2006 8:25 AM ReverendDG has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 129 of 195 (279619)
01-17-2006 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 10:28 PM


Re: History
quote:
What did you desire as a child? To have a mother and father that both treat you with love?
Or would it be ok for you to have same sex parents?
I would have given anything for my parents to have been competent, loving parents, regardless of their genders.
My two straight parents screwed me up so I had to spend years and years trying to fix myself.
quote:
But I am not convinced that people getting insulted is a result of what I am saying, more that it is a result of people having their own personal problems.
You think the reason I am insulted is because I have a "personal problem", and not because you said to my face that you don't think my marriage should even be called a marriage because I have no children?
That is truly mind boggling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 10:28 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by riVeRraT, posted 01-17-2006 5:06 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 130 of 195 (279620)
01-17-2006 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 10:28 PM


Re: History
quote:
So the only people I have been treated bad from sexually was gay people. It may be the reason I don't think it is right, or at least part of it.
And yet, the only people who have treated me badly in a sexual way were straight males, and I don't think that heterosexual men should have their rights taken away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 10:28 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 131 of 195 (279624)
01-17-2006 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 10:36 PM


Re: History
Rat, did you "decide" to be straight?
quote:
Yes, I did.
Read my last post.
Sorry, what I read in your last post in no way describes "choosing" to be straight.
Since when has this been the norm in any society?
quote:
Since a sperm and an egg got together to make your ass.
Oh? One woman and one man raising their children together has always been "the norm"?
Care to provide some historical support for that claim? Because I seem to recall being fairly certain that the notion of the so-called "nuclear family" being the "normal" or most common family form over the centuries as purely mythical.
Men had multiple wives for much of that time as well.
quote:
Men sure screwd that one up. They had 500 wives, and then felt the need to go a take his brothers wives as well.
Was that love, or a matter of survival? You can't use that as an example if it wasn't love. Because gay people are asying they want to marry because of love. So you can drop that comparason.
Men "screwed that up? I thought that God wanted them to have multiple wives.
Love? Love as a consideration in marriage is a very recent phenomena. Remember, rat, for most of the history of marriage, including in the Bible, women were chattel. They were owned as property.
Even later, when women were considered people (albeit inferior people), since they had no property rights, the idea of marrying for love was rare. Marriages were to secure one's financial future, or to form bonds between important families. If love came after, then good for you, that's a bonus.
It has only been in very, very recent times that marriage had anything at all to do with romantic love rather than being a business or social arrangement.
The main and overriding reason people get married these days is because they love each other, and not for any of the historical reasons marriages have taken place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 10:36 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 132 of 195 (279626)
01-17-2006 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by macaroniandcheese
01-17-2006 12:15 AM


Re: Yet you support oppression
please tell me you're kidding.
Of course. But many people claim that.
I will respond later or tomorrow to everyones posts, I am very busy today, and I want to take time to absorb everything that has been said, minus the insults and stupid comments from some.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-17-2006 12:15 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 133 of 195 (279627)
01-17-2006 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by ReverendDG
01-17-2006 4:06 AM


Re: Yet you support oppression
well just as a side-note many cultures allowed men to become women, to take up female duties, OT but interesting
Back that up please with some verses, and info.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by ReverendDG, posted 01-17-2006 4:06 AM ReverendDG has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Wounded King, posted 01-17-2006 9:59 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 134 of 195 (279631)
01-17-2006 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by riVeRraT
01-16-2006 11:05 PM


Re: History
quote:
But ever here the expression, lets get married and have kids?
Yes.
Ever hear the expression, "I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you"? Notice what isn't a part of that statement?
quote:
Lets just leave out the kids part, because we don't want any, we are too busy with ourselves, and our careers.
"Let's have a whole bunch of kids when we get married, because we don't care about the fact that the earth is overpopulated, or that there are thousands of unwanted children waiting for loving homes. We only care about making our own, because all those other kids, and the Earth, are unimportant. We only care about our little family and breeding as much as possible."
Do you see how I can misrepresent your attitude just as easily as you misrepresent mine? Do you see how offensive and insulting it is?
quote:
Is it a marriage?
I don't know, I am confused, honestly.
I can't for the life of me think of why you would be confused.
You and I both applied for and received a marriage license.
You and I both went through a marriage ceremony with our intendeds which was presided over by an agent of the state, who signed the marriage certificate and gave it to us. We are both married.
Nowhere on the marriage certificate, nor in the marriage ceremony itself, does it say that the marriage is invalid unless we breed.
That is YOUR strange little problem with seeing my marriage as worthy of being considered a marriage at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by riVeRraT, posted 01-16-2006 11:05 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 135 of 195 (279636)
01-17-2006 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by arachnophilia
01-17-2006 12:41 AM


Re: History
i didn't really think that one counted. it's like 'smile pretty for the camera'.
cause if it really counted i kiss girls all the time in greeting and leaving. but not for real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by arachnophilia, posted 01-17-2006 12:41 AM arachnophilia has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024