Walts magnetic field and electrical storms for simple

IN another thread simple claimed that no one has dealt with this assertion (how does anyone deal with ipse dixit except to ask for details??).

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Now add to this what Walt has said is an axis tilt of the earth at the same time, that would cause magnetic reversals extrordinaire (sic)-in short order! Massive elecrical storms worldwide

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JM: So, tell us simple. What caused the axis tilt to change? According to your flood model, where in the flood did the axis tilt change? Since we have a magnetic reversal record in the rocks, tell us where in the rock record this axis tilt event occurred. Since we have evidence from corals/stromatolites, tell us when we should see this axis tilt event? How much did the axis tilt? Why would an axis tilt cause magnetic reversals? Why would magnetic reversals trigger electrical storms? Where is the evidence for this claim or is it another ipse dixit claim by Walt?CheersJoe Meert

Joe, I'm beginning to think this magnetic reversal thing is just a normal phenomenom, find yourself 4 permanent magnets, lay them end to end on wood table top, it should be ns ns ns ns because you have many north and south poles of different intensities, on each square magnet, you can play many games, if the the magnets are ns ns then if you rotate the top two either clockwise or counter clock wise without lifting them from the table top they will attract, so you have a magnetic reversal, because opposite poles attact, because the permanent magnet has two north poles and two south poles on each end you can now flip two magnets without pulling them apart so they lay two magnets thick, too me it seems the only thing of interest is that magnetic intensities were greater in the past, suggesting a greater electric earth, in earths past, if your able to disprove that each permanent magnet doesn't have 2 north poles and 2 south poles on each end, for a total of 12 north poles and 12 south poles on each magnet, seems your magnetic reversals are nothing more than magnetic intensities, if you can not lay your permanent magnets side by side, without reversing the polarities, why should it be any different in the natural, etc...P.S. Take two permanent magnets lay them end to end, then rotate one magnet without taking it off the table, the magnet will attact the other on all sides, then take one magnet and flip it over 180 degrees, it will now not attract on any side, this proves that a permanent magnet has a total of 12 north and 12 south poles, your magnetic reversals have nothing to do with magnetic reversals, its just a normal phenomenom, if you lay permanent magnets one on top of the other, it will increase this sides magnetic field, but it has nothing to do with true north, if you can not lay permanent magnets side by side without changing the polarity, why would it be any different when these magnets formed when the lavas cooled, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 02-09-2004]

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Joe, I'm beginning to think this magnetic reversal thing is just a normal phenomenom, find yourself 4 permanent magnets, lay them end to end on wood table top, it should be ns ns ns ns because you have many north and south poles of different intensities, on each square magnet, you can play many games, if the the magnets are ns ns then if you rotate the top two either clockwise or counter clock wise without lifting them from the table top they will attract, so you have a magnetic reversal, because opposite poles attact, because the permanent magnet has two north poles and two south poles on each end you can now flip two magnets without pulling them apart so they lay two magnets thick, too me it seems the only thing of interest is that magnetic intensities were greater in the past, suggesting a greater electric earth, in earths past, if your able to disprove that each permanent magnet doesn't have 2 north poles and 2 south poles on each end, for a total of 12 north poles and 12 south poles on each magnet, seems your magnetic reversals are nothing more than magnetic intensities, if you can not lay your permanent magnets side by side, without reversing the polarities, why should it be any different in the natural, etc...

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JM: THis is an utter load of nonsense from you. Any student with a modicum of basic electrodynamics would be scratching their head wondering where the heck you dreamed up this word salad. Reversals require that a North seeking pole becomes south seeking. Flipping magnets upside down is not a reversal. The north polarity side is still north polarity and the south is still south. You've just rotated them, but have not affected their magnetic characteristic. This 12 poles stuff is nonsensical, sorry. Here is the schematic of a reversal: Note: The above is a schematic, there are no permanent 'bar' magnets in the core.During a reversal, the force lines within the earth become opposite due to a change in the direction of charged flow within the outer core. During a normal field, the inclination (dip) of the field lines is downward in the northern hemisphere and upward in the southern hemisphere (opposite in a reverse field). The strength of the magnetic field oscillates, it was higher in the past and it was also lower in the past. The magnetic field of the earth is not a bar magnet, it arises from the motion of charges in the outer core. It is the flow of charges that reverses in the earth and this is the same requirement needed to reverse magnetic polarity in your magnets (flipping the magnets around only changes the spatial location of the south pole not the polarity). In order to truly reverse the poles in your magnets, you would have to use an electrical charge oriented in the proper fashion. The poles on either end of the magnet will not spontaneously change their orientations.

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P.S. Take two permanent magnents lay them end to end, then rotate one magnet without taking it off the table, the magnet will attact the other on all sides, then take one magnet and flip it over, it will now not attract on any side, this proves that a permanent magnet has a total of 12 north and 12 south poles

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JM: Nonsense. Each magnet has one north and one south pole. If you want more details on claims about the magnetic field made by creationists, you may visit Is the Earth ). In particular, you should read the textbooks referenced in that piece.[This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 02-09-2004]

Joe, When lay my magnets side by side, and flip them they don't attract, seems magnetic reversals are just one side of the magnet field being expressed, the reason it seems to me the magnets attract is when you lay the magnets end to end the 2 different north and south poles on the different sides attracting are opposites, etc...P.S. I kind of thought you would disagree, but my permanent magnets in the natural suggest 2 north poles and south poles on each end of the magnet, what is you explanation for this phenomenom, if magnets have only one north pole, etc...

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P.S. I kind of thought you would disagree, but my permanent magnets in the natural suggest 2 north poles and south poles on each end of the magnet, what is you explanation for this phenomenom, if magnets have only one north pole, etc...

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JM: MY explanation is that you are wrong. Each magnet has 1 North and 1 South pole. If you place the S-poles end-to-end the magnets repel. If you place the two N-poles end-to-end the magnets repel. If you place the S-pole of one magnet against the n-pole of the other, they will attract. Each magnet has ONLY 2 poles (1 south and 1 north). You can find nothing in elementary electrodynamics to support your argument. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what you are observing. If you lay the magnets side by side, then their behavior depends on the strength of the field lines emanating from each pole. The magnets are interacting, but not noticeably so to your naked eye. However, if you took some fine-grained iron particles, placed your magnets side-by-side under a piece of white paper, you could see the interaction. Look, I'm not interested in teaching a basic physics course here, but you should do some reading on the subject. I should note that the behavior of magnets is the same for both creationists and evolutionists and is rather basic physics.CHeersJoe Meert[This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 02-09-2004][This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 02-09-2004]

Joe, I couldn't find nothing either to explain this phenomenom, that my permanent magnets expressed, when I lay my magnets end to end and label them, ns ns, when I flip one magnet 180 the sides I labeled north and south repels, suggesting to me there is 12 different north poles and 12 different south poles, for every permanent magnet, etc...P.S. It would seem your agreeing with the creationists on this one, if the creationist agree with you on this, then I must be missing some explanation, for what I'm seeing in the natural, etc...

Whatever, I suggest that you find a high-school chemistry teacher that will loan you some iron filings. Put a piece of stiff paper over one of your magnets and sprinkle some filings on it, so you can visualize the lines of force emanating from the poles.And see if the teacher can loan you a physics text to read, too.

Whatever, how many people have now told you your idea of placing magnets side by side is NOT anywhere near the same thing as aligned magnetic minerals in rocks?Coragyps gave you a perfect example - and I believe I used the same one weeks ago! Get yourself a magnet, roll it through the dirt in your backyard and SEE just how many magnetite grains you can get sitting side by side. Their relatively WEAK magnetic fields do NOT affect the other grains because the larger magnet (just like the Earth) is much stronger. Surely you can see this.

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Surely you can see this.

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JM: What are the odds in Vegas?CheersJoe Meert

I'm not holding my breath...

Hi, Whatever!While I believe you're as wrong as everyone else, you're taking the exact right approach in performing actual experiments, so I'm curious to understand what it was, exactly, that you were doing, and what it was you thought you observed. So let me make sure I've got this exactly right. We're talking about two bar magnets, at least several times longer than they are thick? And they're identical? And you placed them lengthwise adjacent to each other along their long sides with north adjacent to north and south adjacent to south? Correct me if I've got any of this wrong. So when you flip them, are they still side by side, but with north adjacent to south at both ends? And you're saying there appears to be no attraction between them after the flip? But there was an attraction between them before?Please let me know if I have this right.--Percy

I don't see the magnetized iron filings supporting you premise, just the particles are seeking opposite polarities, etc...P.S. I've already explained if you take two retangular permanent magnets, on a piece of paper, and flip one magnet 180 degrees, it will show a reversal of its magnetic pole, magnetic reversals is only a magnetic expression of one of the sides of a permanent magnet, etc... Magnets and Iron Filings[Shortened very long link. --Admin][This message has been edited by Admin, 02-09-2004]

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P.S. I've already explained if you take two retangular permanent magnets, on a piece of paper, and flip one magnet 180 degrees, it will show a reversal of its magnetic pole, magnetic reversals is only a magnetic expression of one of the sides of a permanent magnet, etc...

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So do you think there is a big bar magnet inside the earth that flips over every so often???Randy

Percy, I bought identical retangular ceramic magnets 1.5 " by .5 " by 3/8" thick at the local hardware store, to check this out, lay 2 magnets on a non metalic surface, so they attract end to end, then label the ends n s n s, without lifting the magnets they should attract on all sides, not including the top or bottom side, then flip one magnet 180 degrees so the bottom side is now the top side, then without lifting the magnets they will repell on all sides, etc...P.S. You only flip one of the magnets, otherwise I think you got it, seems like the top and bottom have a greater surface area, so they probably are the true north and south pole, or why the earth exhibits a true north and a true south, think I just answered my own question, etc...

The field lines from these bar magnets are going to be quite narrow. How close did you lay them side-by-side? The iron filings should clearly show the relationships of field lines in both orientations. By the way, the earth is not a bar magnet and the image you showed is of only one bar magnet, you need to see the field lines with two. I'll run the experiment tonight and take a dig photo.CheersJoe Meert[This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 02-09-2004]