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Member (Idle past 5841 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Can those outside of science credibly speak about science? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The test shows how people 'instinctively' look for tests that seem to confirm the proposition, not ones that necessarily test the truth of the proposition. I think the point of it coming up here was to show that logic is not entirely a natural gift of humans Do you mean that FORMAL logic is not a natural gift of humans? Who would disagree with that? If that's what this topic is about, sorry I butted in. Thanks for explaining the card test to me.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Modulous,
I would, if I thought pointing out Faith's favoured position would help. That she can evade, dodge, claim evidence at the same time saying she doesn't need it, be a hypocrite, unashamedly illogical, insult their opponents position, & then their opponents get admonished when they do a fraction of that. But it won't, so I won't. Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The "dodging" around here is being done by the evos who can't think their way out of a paper bag but lord it over the creos though they can't follow the simplest point.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Faith,
The "dodging" around here is being done by the evos who can't think their way out of a paper bag but lord it over the creos though they can't follow the simplest point. You truly are the queen of dogma. Try following this simple point, go on, try:
Your idiotic idea that cladistics is anything other than a self-validating begging of the question tells me all I need to know about "science."
It isn't begging the question because you don't have to assume the conclusion in order to accept the premises. Got it yet? Try this then: "Cladistics & stratigraphy" works just like any other science, a prediction is made that is then validated by the data. Easy isn't it? The evidence I have provided is arrived at via the same method as the rest of science that you don't deny. Your position is hypocritical if you deny one thing for being self-validating, yet accept another, despite it being self-validating (your criteria). With me so far? Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The "dodging" around here is being done by the evos who can't think their way out of a paper bag but lord it over the creos though they can't follow the simplest point. How amusing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You truly are the queen of dogma. Pretty funny.
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I have 20 years of empirical evidence--my poor community college students--to support my contention that logical thinking is a natural faculty.
I have not posted anything disagreeing with that. But that is different from saying that logic is thinking.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You're just kidding yourself that what you are doing is making "a prediction ... that is then validated by the data."
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The DICTIONARY I quoted back there says that logic is thinking. "Thinking" = "reasoning" for those addicted to obsessional hairsplitting. What is the matter with you people???
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-05-2006 01:37 PM
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AdminModulous Administrator Posts: 897 Joined: |
Enough! I see my fears that this post was threatening to degrade into a steaming cesspool of disrespectful insanity (yes, on both sides). So no more on this! I will be putting a post in the appropriate thread to explain why I decided to interject. This message has been edited by AdminModulous, Sun, 05-March-2006 06:32 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sentence structure is logical in the Romance and Germanic languages, and Russian too as far as I can tell from a six weeks' attempt to learn it. I suspect there may be a different kind of logic involved in some other language groups but I would expect them to be structured logically somehow or other JUST BECAUSE HUMAN BEINGS ARE INHERENTLY REASONING THINKING CREATURES.
THOUGH THE EVOS AROUND HERE COULD GET ME TO CHANGE MY MIND ABOUT THAT! This message has been edited by Faith, 03-05-2006 01:45 PM
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1489 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I think there's something basically fundamentally wrong with the scientific mentality. I've been coming to that conclusion for some time now. Something lacking in the reasoning department, and in the plain humanity department for sure. Ah, right. That would explain the vast progress of humanity during the past 400 of enlightenment scientific thought, and the abject failure of religious thought to develop anything more sophisticated than the water clock for over 1000 years of the Dark Ages. Oh, wait, no, it doesn't explain that at all. Did it occur to you that the deficiency in thought and reasoning is yours, not scientists?
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You aren't supposed to know that for this task. The information given is all that is needed to figure out the answer, which is, as I said, a very basic abstract logic problem. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-05-2006 03:28 PM
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: "Thinking" is not synonymous with "reasoning". Nor is all "thinking" logical. "Reasoning" is a type of "thinking", but "reasoning" is not the only kind of thinking there is. Remember, dictionaries describe how words are used by people, they do not proscribe meaning.
quote: In general, using specific definitions for words makes for clearer, more productive discussions. Here's what RR said:
I don't think the study of FORMAL logic is necessary. Many can recognize a contradiction or a fallacy like "begging the question" when they see it, even if they don't have a label for the fallacy. Logic is a natural faculty. What those of us who have bothered to do some reading up on the subject have learned is that the above claim is generally untrue. Most people can't recognize a contradiction/fallacy when they see it, and they have to put in effort to learn to avoid such pitfalls in thinking. If logic beyond the exceedingly basic correlational type was so natural, then people wouldn't make such trivial errors so incredibly often. See, that's the kind of thing one discovers when one looks into the subject like we have.
quote: Incorrect. Most people can't do this easily, or at all, even though it is a very basic, very uncomplicated abstract logic task, so you shouldn't feel bad about it. Humans aren't very good at abstract logic. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-05-2006 03:42 PM
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Yeah, you'd better stop going to the doctor, taking any medications, eating any food that is prepared in a restaurant (microbiology helps prevent foodborne illness), using any antibacterial product or antiseptic, going to the dentist, using the internal combustion engine in any form, using the computer, or using electricity. The "scientific mentality" produced all of those things, and it's fundamentally wrong, so you'd better just lay off.
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