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Author
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Topic: "...except in the case of rape or incest."
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: ringo goes off half-cocked
Like I said nobody else is under an obligation to untangle the contradictions in your own position. It's your job to either do so or abandon an untenable position, if your desire is to be intellectually honest. My position has been reworded to fit metaphors, takin out of context, and had words added. Its hard for me to even see what position I'm defending anymore.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 266 by crashfrog, posted 03-20-2006 4:21 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 273 by crashfrog, posted 03-20-2006 4:54 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: ringo goes off half-cocked
The problem here is that CS thinks that making abortion illegal will make people think that abortion is wrong I don't think that.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 270 by crashfrog, posted 03-20-2006 4:45 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: ringo goes off half-cocked
Its hard for me to even see what position I'm defending anymore. The position you're defending is that sluts should be punished.
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: ringo goes off half-cocked
The position you're defending is that sluts should be punished. But I didn't even say that.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 273 by crashfrog, posted 03-20-2006 4:54 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: ringo goes off half-cocked
But I didn't even say that. Oh, I know. I just summed up your position using concise and plain language. You were very careful to present your position in as guarded terms as possible, but the meaning came through very clearly. Why else would you so adamantly oppose abortion to the extent that you would make one-third of all women criminals, yet be oh-so-careful to avoid an undue burden on those who were impregnated not by an act of sex they had for pleasure but during a sexual assault?
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nator
Member (Idle past 2424 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Making abortion illegal will only send many thousands of girls and women to jail for murder, and do all the other things I listed in this message I know you are dealing with several people in this thread, but I think it's important for a person such as yourself, who advocates making abortion illegal, to deal with the inevitable consequences. So, if you could kindly outline how you think we should deal with them after criminalizing abortion, I'd appreciate it.
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 277 of 301 (296877)
03-20-2006 5:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 276 by nator
03-20-2006 5:19 PM
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Re: making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Making abortion illegal will only send many thousands of girls and women to jail for murder, and do all the other things I listed in this message Thousands? From my back of the envelope, it's more like 50 million. (That's one third of the female population of the US.)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 276 by nator, posted 03-20-2006 5:19 PM | | nator has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 290 by Chronos, posted 03-20-2006 10:34 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5301 days) Posts: 334 From: Portland, OR Joined: 07-18-2003
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Message 278 of 301 (296881)
03-20-2006 5:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 276 by nator
03-20-2006 5:19 PM
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Re: making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Going further, i always wonder if, in a society where abortion is considered murder, any miscarriage will require a murder investigation.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 276 by nator, posted 03-20-2006 5:19 PM | | nator has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Well something went wrong somewhere.
I just summed up your position using concise and plain language. You were very careful to present your position in as guarded terms as possible, but the meaning came through very clearly. But you're wrong about my position.
Why else would you so adamantly oppose abortion to the extent that you would make one-third of all women criminals, yet be oh-so-careful to avoid an undue burden on those who were impregnated not by an act of sex they had for pleasure but during a sexual assault? I already said that I think that abortion should be legal. I also said, well...typed, that if abortion was made illegal, then I understand why the case of rape would be excluded. It is because the woman was not responsible for getting pregnant and forcing her to keep that pregnancy is less worse than aborting the child. If the woman is responsible for getting pregnant and abortions are illegal, then I don't think that society is obligated to take responsibility for her pregnancy because of the illegality of abortion.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 275 by crashfrog, posted 03-20-2006 5:09 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 282 by crashfrog, posted 03-20-2006 6:24 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 280 of 301 (296894)
03-20-2006 5:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 276 by nator
03-20-2006 5:19 PM
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Re: making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Making abortion illegal will only send many thousands of girls and women to jail for murder I don't think that's true. Making abortion illegal wouldn't mean punishing the third of the population of women who had abortions when they were legal.
So, if you could kindly outline how you think we should deal with them after criminalizing abortion, I'd appreciate it. Well, if a law is passed, you expect the citizens to obey the law. If they don't then they are punished according to the law. If someone is going to ignore the law and do what they want anyway then they are punished, but you can't go back and punish the people that did the thing before it was made illegal.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 276 by nator, posted 03-20-2006 5:19 PM | | nator has replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Re: making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Well, if a law is passed, you expect the citizens to obey the law. Which is why we don't have prisons. Don't need 'em! Seriously, though. You mentioned drug laws earlier. According to the CDC an average of 1 in 5 high school seniors had used marijuana in the month before their survey. Don't they know it's illegal? Shouldn't that stop it? And that's just high school seniors. Should I try and find the college statistics?
"We had survived to turn on the History Channel And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied: You're what happens when two substances collide And by all accounts you really should have died." -Andrew Bird
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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It is because the woman was not responsible for getting pregnant and forcing her to keep that pregnancy is less worse than aborting the child. But why do you believe that would be true for the victim of a rape, and not true for a single woman whose contraception inexplicably failed?
If the woman is responsible for getting pregnant and abortions are illegal, then I don't think that society is obligated to take responsibility for her pregnancy because of the illegality of abortion. Well, we've already established that the majority of abortions are the result of contraception failure. Why do you believe that the woman is responsible? From where I see it, she was responsible by choosing to use contraception, and that's the end of the responsibility. If anyone should be obligated to provide for the child it should be the manufacturer of the faulty contraception, don't you think?
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Which is why we don't have prisons. Don't need 'em! Yeah, and that's why nobody ever downloads mp3's or movies from the Internet. Wait, what was that sound? Never mind - it was just my iPod spontaneously ceasing to exist.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 295 by nator, posted 03-21-2006 7:26 AM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Well, if a law is passed, you expect the citizens to obey the law. Which is why we don't have prisons. Don't need 'em! This how I get pushed into defending positions that I didn't even take.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 666 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: making abortion illegal won't stop abortion
Catholic Scientist writes: This how I get pushed into defending positions that I didn't even take. Nobody's pushing you.  (Move quietly toward the door. Don't make any sudden moves. Be careful not to trip over the couch.)
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