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Author Topic:   Hydroplates unchallenged young earth explains Tectonics shortcomings!
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 166 of 197 (84809)
02-09-2004 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by simple
02-09-2004 4:26 AM


Re: A closer look at other plate theory
quote:
Now we're talking. You are starting to address what Walt is really saying. Now remember I haven't totally embraced this yet and may not have his idea perfect, but I think it goes something like this. Very great pressure ripped a seam. like in a baseball (ridges) all around the globe, starting in the Atlantic-shooting out the miles deep ocean of water the earth was sort of floating on, supported also by pillars. A dominoe effect began to shatter the pillars, the ruptered area eroding quickly more and more and the released water in some cases supersonically shooting into space starting the asteroid belt-and killing all life on earth (but 8 people & basic animal kinds on ark) as the "fountain" widened displaced molten material from the other side of the earh (noe ring of fire) kinda caved in a little as a natural effect of the rising on the other side of earth's sphere (Atlantic--) then as it raised up, the plates on either side slid away, on a bed of a lot of the water still under there, (reduced friction-gravity) but the ridge sealed up again, stopping the flow entirely-some of the water hitting space froze, coming down as a mucky hail, freezing mammoths, etc. then, as waters stopped, recession phase of flood began and present ocean beds exposed, with much lower sea level. (in places you could cross by land!-hence animal migration. A century or 2 later (Peleg's day) when "the earth was devided" (Atlantis sunk-Walt doesn't mention this!) the sea levels rose deviding continents by water. OK I think I got the basics here.
Your post is long-it's late- later
--Right.. Ok try this, I will be utterly impressed if you (or even Walt Brown) can explain the following observations; The thickness of oceanic lithosphere systematically increases (predictably) as a function of distance (hence age) from the paleoridge. The bathymetry of the ocean floors also show the same systematic correlation with distance from the paleoridge. Ocean ridges are shallow and depth to basement increases as a function of age. Furthermore, and probably the most damning, heat flow systematically decreases as a function of seafloor age; again predictably and while there is some systematic misfit for young ages (due to hydrothermal circulation!) the same models which predict systematic variation in bathymetry also agree with the heatflow data. Moreover, geoid data also exhibits the same function of age correlation.
Also, the "hydroplate theory" can't even begin to explain the morphology of ocean ridges as functions of spreading rate. The observation of different ridge morphologies is compatible with that predicted from observed rates of seafloor spreading for slow, intermediate, and fast (and superfast) spreading ridges.
Increase in thickness of pelagic sedimentary cover as functions of seafloor age.
Lastly for this list, marine magnetic anomalies are unequivocal evidence not only for geomagnetic reversals, but for seafloor spreading. Their existance, and especially the fact that they are well correlated with paleomagnetic data on land are pretty ironclad evidence for seafloor spreading as the process by which the oceanic crust and lithosphere has been formed.
--[edit] - I didn't give any references, albeit I will if anyone wants one. I can give a very good reference for virtually any point or assertion I have made in this post.
Cheers,
-Chris Grose
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-09-2004]
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-09-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by simple, posted 02-09-2004 4:26 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by simple, posted 02-09-2004 9:47 PM TrueCreation has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 167 of 197 (84841)
02-09-2004 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Joe Meert
02-09-2004 9:21 AM


spider -if I'm in a web come on out & get me!
All the while, in the Rockies (God's little Eden) we have the waxing and waning of water changing depths slightly causing multiple layers of photo-temperature-environment sensitive reefs to grow. Oh, what a tangled web....
You seem to be suggesting that Walt's theory, would not correspond with my ideas. Can you explain what the photo t s sensitive means (I don't think it was tourists pictures you meant). Perhaps I could then change my ideas, or dump part of Walt's. As far as deceiving, I don't think so.
If I understand though so far, it sounds like you have a hypothesis of how the 'reefs' were formed, and it involves long time periods, and you don't like this because the tangled web of long age deception you are so familiar with to explain away God's part seems exposed here as possibly untrue.
All that remains then is to pinpoint exactly how Walt or I's concept of the flood events are off. thanks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Joe Meert, posted 02-09-2004 9:21 AM Joe Meert has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Coragyps, posted 02-09-2004 9:28 PM simple has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 168 of 197 (84849)
02-09-2004 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by simple
02-09-2004 8:48 PM


Re: spider -if I'm in a web come on out & get me!
If I understand though so far, it sounds like you have a hypothesis of how the 'reefs' were formed, and it involves long time periods,
I'll bet that is what JM has in mind, too. Why don't you go to Guadelupe Mountains National Park, out west of Carlsbad Caverns, on your next vacation. Look at El Capitan for a while, and hike around on it. Take Walt with you, if you wish. Then propose a way to get a 1600-foot thick reef of shallow-water organisms that require clean water to grow in a year. Or a thousand years. And come back here and tell us about it.
And don't forget the Delaware Basin, just south of there. It has 7000+ feet of millimeter-thick layers, alternately windblown sand and organic-rich shale. Give us a catastrophic theory for that, too.
[This message has been edited by Coragyps, 02-09-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by simple, posted 02-09-2004 8:48 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by simple, posted 02-09-2004 9:36 PM Coragyps has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 169 of 197 (84850)
02-09-2004 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Percy
02-09-2004 9:26 AM


flatlanders see no spititual, or supernatural
No evidence of massive steam explosions at mid-oceanic ridges.
If Walt was right, maybe they were looking for steam and heat more than less superheated water than you suppose?
No evidence of the edges of tectonic plates having been blown hundreds of miles upward
If H P was right maybe they had some different assumtions as to what the effects were. Don't you wish someone would take that boy on?(You're not qualified are you?)
No evidence of pillars supporting the edges of the plates.
Perhaps it would be hard to find that evidence?
No evidence near mid-oceanic ridges of rock strain associated with bending the plate edge up into space.
So now you think H P has space plates?
No evidence that almost all life on earth died about 6000 years ago.
less than 4000! Big topic, a quikie on that if present birth rates & death rates accounted for, creation books have it as perfect for today's population!!!(wheras the millions of your imagined years would have people piled high into space on top of each other!(Do your own homework here folks, it's no secret)
No evidence of a layer of water underlying the tectonic plates
God said fountains of deep were opened, so theres some historical record.(How about the widespread flood legends all over earth!)
No evidence of runaway continental drift or runaway subduction.
You guys for p t claim the drift. And the 'subduction' stuff to at least mr Brown thinks is mere unreal speculation.
No evidence that mammoths are frozen in water that had a subterranean origin
But lots to point they were frozen, and quickly! Perhaps evo folks imagining them to be artic adapted, chewing snow 14 hours a day in 40 below weather, in the dark is better for you!!!
No evidence that the asteroid belt has a terrestrial origin
u know who thinks there is. I don't know, I'd be interested to see someone in a debate get a K O!
No evidence that representatives of all the animal species of the world migrated either to or from a point in the Middle East
Well, that one is fair enough. Maybe they did not! On this score you have some leeway. I wonder if Walt is right, how many did actually migrate. I find it interesting though, that at least some or many could have, with h p.
No evidence of Atlantis
Can't blame Walty on that one. Here I go into the supernatural! Dreams and visions of Christians I've known (not open for debate on this one) Also I think folks like Cayce, and ancient Josepheus (Spelled I don't know how) etc. But I'm glad the point came up, because it seems to me that a good many (all?) of you monkey tales people do not believe in the spititual, and supernatural, etc.?! No?
No evidence of recent dramatic ocean-level changes
I can't say much on that, good point. I suspect the h p man would easily engage you there.
it is contradicted by all the evidence we *do* have.
take away the date dreams and I think theres not much left on your side, whereas the young earth has tons. (How much time seasalt would take by slow processes, etc. Gases in atmosphere to form etc. It's all arrayed against your theories-so don't make yourself look bad saying there is no evidence.)
Even without radiometric data, the deep sea sediments give a very good indication of the age of the ocean floor
Not without welding assumptions that are intrue and unprovable to the data.
I see the burrowers down under people have seemed to fall strangely quiet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Percy, posted 02-09-2004 9:26 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Coragyps, posted 02-09-2004 10:01 PM simple has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 170 of 197 (84854)
02-09-2004 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Coragyps
02-09-2004 9:28 PM


Re: spider -if I'm in a web come on out & get me!
Then propose a way to get a 1600-foot thick reef of shallow-water organisms that require clean water to grow in a year
If your assumptions of how the 'reef' or limestone were formed were correct that may present a slight problem! As it is, I find it close to retarded to actually believe much of that old age dreaming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Coragyps, posted 02-09-2004 9:28 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by TrueCreation, posted 02-09-2004 10:18 PM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 197 (84855)
02-09-2004 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by TrueCreation
02-09-2004 5:16 PM


Persistant Paleohalucinitis
No evidence of massive steam explosions at mid-oceanic ridges.
If Walt was right, maybe they were looking for steam and heat more than less superheated water than you suppose?
No evidence of the edges of tectonic plates having been blown hundreds of miles upward
If H P was right maybe they had some different assumtions as to what the effects were. Don't you wish someone would take that boy on?(You're not qualified are you?)
No evidence of pillars supporting the edges of the plates.
Perhaps it would be hard to find that evidence?
No evidence near mid-oceanic ridges of rock strain associated with bending the plate edge up into space.
So now you think H P has space plates?
No evidence that almost all life on earth died about 6000 years ago.
less than 4000! Big topic, a quikie on that if present birth rates & death rates accounted for, creation books have it as perfect for today's population!!!(wheras the millions of your imagined years would have people piled high into space on top of each other!(Do your own homework here folks, it's no secret)
No evidence of a layer of water underlying the tectonic plates
God said fountains of deep were opened, so theres some historical record.(How about the widespread flood legends all over earth!)
No evidence of runaway continental drift or runaway subduction.
You guys for p t claim the drift. And the 'subduction' stuff to at least mr Brown thinks is mere unreal speculation.
No evidence that mammoths are frozen in water that had a subterranean origin
But lots to point they were frozen, and quickly! Perhaps evo folks imagining them to be artic adapted, chewing snow 14 hours a day in 40 below weather, in the dark is better for you!!!
No evidence that the asteroid belt has a terrestrial origin
u know who thinks there is. I don't know, I'd be interested to see someone in a debate get a K O!
No evidence that representatives of all the animal species of the world migrated either to or from a point in the Middle East
Well, that one is fair enough. Maybe they did not! On this score you have some leeway. I wonder if Walt is right, how many did actually migrate. I find it interesting though, that at least some or many could have, with h p.
No evidence of Atlantis
Can't blame Walty on that one. Here I go into the supernatural! Dreams and visions of Christians I've known (not open for debate on this one) Also I think folks like Cayce, and ancient Josepheus (Spelled I don't know how) etc. But I'm glad the point came up, because it seems to me that a good many (all?) of you monkey tales people do not believe in the spititual, and supernatural, etc.?! No?
No evidence of recent dramatic ocean-level changes
I can't say much on that, good point. I suspect the h p man would easily engage you there.
it is contradicted by all the evidence we *do* have.
take away the date dreams and I think theres not much left on your side, whereas the young earth has tons. (How much time seasalt would take by slow processes, etc. Gases in atmosphere to form etc. It's all arrayed against your theories-so don't make yourself look bad saying there is no evidence.)
Even without radiometric data, the deep sea sediments give a very good indication of the age of the ocean floor
Not without welding assumptions that are intrue and unprovable to the data.
I see the burrowers down under people have seemed to fall strangely quiet.
Their existance, and especially the fact that they are well correlated with paleomagnetic data on land are pretty ironclad evidence for seafloor spreading as the process by which the oceanic crust and lithosphere has been formed
Paleohalucinitis I'd say, but you shold get some credit for adeptness in the 'books of the box'!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by TrueCreation, posted 02-09-2004 5:16 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by wj, posted 02-09-2004 10:18 PM simple has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 172 of 197 (84860)
02-09-2004 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by simple
02-09-2004 9:32 PM


Re: flatlanders see no spititual, or supernatural
less than 4000! Big topic, a quikie on that if present birth rates & death rates accounted for, creation books have it as perfect for today's population!!!
Yeah, you got us there. Using the current rate of cockroach population growth, you're exactly right. The Flud was in, let's see, carry the 2,..... yep. April 2002. Probably April 22, 2002. You win, simple. It was recent, all right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by simple, posted 02-09-2004 9:32 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by simple, posted 02-10-2004 12:48 AM Coragyps has replied

wj
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 197 (84862)
02-09-2004 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by simple
02-09-2004 9:47 PM


Re: Persistant Paleohalucinitis
simple writes:
take away the date dreams and I think theres not much left on your side, whereas the young earth has tons. (How much time seasalt would take by slow processes, etc. Gases in atmosphere to form etc. It's all arrayed against your theories-so don't make yourself look bad saying there is no evidence.)
It seems that simple has been duped by the supposed evidences for a young earth from people such as Humphreys. This article gives a brief debunking of each of the supposed pieces of evidence. Since they aren't relevent to this thread, if simple wants to take up any of the issues, he can start a new thread on one or all of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by simple, posted 02-09-2004 9:47 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by simple, posted 02-10-2004 12:31 AM wj has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 197 (84863)
02-09-2004 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by simple
02-09-2004 9:36 PM


Re: spider -if I'm in a web come on out & get me!
quote:
If your assumptions of how the 'reef' or limestone were formed were correct that may present a slight problem! As it is, I find it close to retarded to actually believe much of that old age dreaming.
--lol. This from the same individual who wrote post #171? Simple, can you say simple-minded?
Cheers,
-Chris Grose
{Wondering if this has caused you any flashbacks, to when you started here? - Adminnemooseus}
^Adminnemooseus - Well looking back I remember often making strong assertions as simple is doing now, albeit I also remember attempting to back up those assertions, whether I adequately understood what I was talking about or not. I also remember having to admit my ignorance amply. Even still I find myself convicted of not really knowing what I am talking about. But I am learning.
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-10-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by simple, posted 02-09-2004 9:36 PM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 197 (84885)
02-10-2004 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by wj
02-09-2004 10:18 PM


animal behaviour
It seems that simple has been duped by the supposed evidences for a young
I think it's safe to say one of us has been duped. Funny how you pop in with statements about what I say addressed to someone else. Guess I should stop by your house next time I need a bathroom. No manners. And nothing positive to offer!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by wj, posted 02-09-2004 10:18 PM wj has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by AdminNosy, posted 02-10-2004 12:34 AM simple has not replied
 Message 177 by NosyNed, posted 02-10-2004 12:35 AM simple has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 176 of 197 (84893)
02-10-2004 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by simple
02-10-2004 12:31 AM


Dropping in
Funny how you pop in with statements about what I say addressed to someone else
This is an open forum. Your posts are open to response by any interested parties.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by simple, posted 02-10-2004 12:31 AM simple has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 177 of 197 (84894)
02-10-2004 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by simple
02-10-2004 12:31 AM


Read the links
Did you read the material in the link? Do you need it spelled out for you in short words?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by simple, posted 02-10-2004 12:31 AM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 178 of 197 (84900)
02-10-2004 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Coragyps
02-09-2004 10:01 PM


don't insult your ancestors!
Using the current rate of cockroach population growth
I was talking real life birth rates.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Coragyps, posted 02-09-2004 10:01 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Dr Jack, posted 02-10-2004 6:19 AM simple has replied
 Message 180 by Coragyps, posted 02-10-2004 7:46 AM simple has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 179 of 197 (84948)
02-10-2004 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by simple
02-10-2004 12:48 AM


Re: don't insult your ancestors!
Are cockroaches not real life?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by simple, posted 02-10-2004 12:48 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by simple, posted 02-10-2004 6:30 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 180 of 197 (84954)
02-10-2004 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by simple
02-10-2004 12:48 AM


Re: don't insult your ancestors!
I was talking real life birth rates.
Errrmmm.... no, you weren't. You were reciting, probably without any inspection of its basis, creationist assertions based on post-industrial revolution, post-modern medicine human birth rates. These are much higher than pre-industrial, which in turn are much higher than pre-agricultural rates.
This topic has been on this forum before - someone even calculated the entire world population at the supposed time of Moses using these same rates that "proove" a young Earth. And guess what: there weren't enough folks on earth then to even play the roles of the Egyptians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by simple, posted 02-10-2004 12:48 AM simple has not replied

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