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Author Topic:   where are the WMD?
wj
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 78 (42520)
06-10-2003 9:36 PM


Any weapons of mass destructions yet? Failing that, what's the latest excuse for their complete absense during the war and postwar?

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4146 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 62 of 78 (42521)
06-10-2003 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by compmage
05-06-2003 6:50 PM


quote:
I am permitted to form an opinion about you based on how you spend your money.
First off, I'm as horrified by the following thought as any of you will be, but I'm having trouble denying the basic truth of it.
Daniel Quinn, author of Ishmael, pointed out that we are denying a basic truth of nature when we supply food to Africa. The truth is: populations increase in accordance with food supply and will always outgrow the food supply. We have been sending food to Africa for fifty years, and starvation has continued for fifty years. Only now the population is greater, so the numbers starving are greater.
Yes, without the food many would have died who didn't die. Instead, their children suffer and die, and there are more of the children. Quinn's argument is that our food has increased starvation and death in Africa, not decreased it.
Just a thought, gruesome as its implications might be.
The one way out of that is to import birth control with food, but apparently we've not been too successful at that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by compmage, posted 05-06-2003 6:50 PM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by NosyNed, posted 06-10-2003 11:24 PM truthlover has not replied
 Message 64 by compmage, posted 06-11-2003 3:38 AM truthlover has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 63 of 78 (42526)
06-10-2003 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by truthlover
06-10-2003 10:32 PM


birth control
The US has, as I understand the newspaper, been very bad at supporting birth control world wide.
It seems any hint of abortion and funds get cut.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by truthlover, posted 06-10-2003 10:32 PM truthlover has not replied

compmage
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 64 of 78 (42536)
06-11-2003 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by truthlover
06-10-2003 10:32 PM


truthlover writes:
We have been sending food to Africa for fifty years, and starvation has continued for fifty years. Only now the population is greater, so the numbers starving are greater.
This is, unfortunately true, but until the countries in question are able larely support themselves then the only other alternative is letting the people starve. Unless you would rather kill them outright and at least save them the suffering.
truthlover writes:
The one way out of that is to import birth control with food, but apparently we've not been too successful at that.
This is a sticky situation. There are many actions that would help (debt relief, aggricultural assistnace, etc), unfortunately most of these take time to have a possitive effect and aren't always going to do any long term good.
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by truthlover, posted 06-10-2003 10:32 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by truthlover, posted 06-11-2003 10:46 PM compmage has replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4146 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 65 of 78 (42639)
06-11-2003 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by compmage
06-11-2003 3:38 AM


quote:
There are many actions that would help (debt relief, aggricultural assistnace, etc), unfortunately most of these take time to have a possitive effect and aren't always going to do any long term good.
Ummm, you lost me. You said they take time to have a positive effect, but they aren't going to do long term good? Am I missing something?
quote:
This is, unfortunately true, but until the countries in question are able larely support themselves then the only other alternative is letting the people starve. Unless you would rather kill them outright and at least save them the suffering.
I'm not really suggesting anything, just thinking out loud. This is an evolution/creation debate board, so the ecological idea that populations outgrow the food supply, die off, recoup now that the food supply is better, etc., seems to apply to this one.
I attach some significance to human life, and I'm not really satisfied to leave humans to the whims of nature. However, just trying to increase the food supply, and doing nothing else, is only increasing the starvation, so we're not doing any short term or long term good. It seems like something different than just sending food has to be done.
It was Daniel Quinn's point, not mine, but it seems an awful good one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by compmage, posted 06-11-2003 3:38 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by compmage, posted 06-12-2003 3:34 AM truthlover has replied

compmage
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 66 of 78 (42656)
06-12-2003 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by truthlover
06-11-2003 10:46 PM


truthlover writes:
Ummm, you lost me. You said they take time to have a positive effect, but they aren't going to do long term good? Am I missing something?
Let me see, something like debt relief can help IF the government decided to use the extra money they then have in the budget in a contructive way. However if they decided to buy a new presidential jet or otherwise squander the money...
Does that make it clearer.
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by truthlover, posted 06-11-2003 10:46 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by truthlover, posted 06-12-2003 2:06 PM compmage has replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4146 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 67 of 78 (42692)
06-12-2003 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by compmage
06-12-2003 3:34 AM


quote:
Does that make it clearer.
That makes it lots clearer. Thanks.
I've seen your posts, and you're obviously quite intelligent, but there were three typos or misspelled words in your sentence, so I wondered if you were drunk when you wrote the post. It was very confusing to get a sentence I couldn't understand with misspelled words from compmage, of all people.
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by compmage, posted 06-12-2003 3:34 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by NosyNed, posted 06-12-2003 2:14 PM truthlover has not replied
 Message 69 by compmage, posted 06-12-2003 3:53 PM truthlover has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 68 of 78 (42694)
06-12-2003 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by truthlover
06-12-2003 2:06 PM


splelling
but there were three typos or misspelled words in your sentence
Perhaps the forums guidelines could be extended to cover some of this.
Some indivduals are using English as a 2nd, 3rd ... language. No one, like myself who is monolingual, can be at all critical of any errors they make. I think a reminder to that effect should be added to the guidelines.
Others, like myself, have a problem with spelling. Others, like myself, type to fast and generate typos. Are we supposed to edit everthing before we post? It is hard to find the time to keep up anyway.
A forum guideline could point out that we all, even if not deliberately, are influenced in our opinion of the poster by things like grammer and spelling. A poster might want to remember that.
At the same time another guideline might remind us that the spelling and grammer don't count as much as the reasoning being put forward.
All that said, if the errors make the material incomprehensible then more care if needed.
(of course, some seem to spell just fine and perhaps even get the grammer right and still produce utterly incomprehensible posts --- I really hope that doesn't include me )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by truthlover, posted 06-12-2003 2:06 PM truthlover has not replied

compmage
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 69 of 78 (42717)
06-12-2003 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by truthlover
06-12-2003 2:06 PM


truthlover writes:
That makes it lots clearer. Thanks.
I'm glad I could help.
truthlover writes:
I've seen your posts, and you're obviously quite intelligent...
Thank you very much.
Here I was thinking that I 'sound' like an uneducated layperson grasping at straws.
truthlover writes:
...but there were three typos or misspelled words in your sentence, so I wondered if you were drunk when you wrote the post.
If only I could use that as an excuse. I'm afraid that I have always had a problem with spelling. I think it has to do with the fact that I missed most of the ground work as a child (I was in hospital and kept at home, for medical reasons, for most of a year). I try and keep my post error free as much as I can. However, I am currently being retrenched and I might not have been paying as much attention to spelling as I should. There are also differences in official spelling between America (which is were I think you are from) and South Africa.
truthlover writes:
It was very confusing to get a sentence I couldn't understand with misspelled words from compmage, of all people.
I would hope that even when I don't correctly spell a word it is still close enough that you would be able to understand what I was trying to say. However, if this is not the case please don't hesitate to ask for clarification, as you have done in this thread. We all have our faults and when it comes to spelling I am more than willing to admit that this is one of mine.
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by truthlover, posted 06-12-2003 2:06 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by crashfrog, posted 06-12-2003 4:00 PM compmage has not replied
 Message 71 by truthlover, posted 06-13-2003 12:07 PM compmage has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1553 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 70 of 78 (42720)
06-12-2003 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by compmage
06-12-2003 3:53 PM


Here I was thinking that I 'sound' like an uneducated layperson grasping at straws.
You and me both, friend.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by compmage, posted 06-12-2003 3:53 PM compmage has not replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4146 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 71 of 78 (42882)
06-13-2003 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by compmage
06-12-2003 3:53 PM


My brother is qualified for Mensa (based on his SAT score), though not a Mensa member, and his spelling is atrocious (sp?).
Well, it was atrocious. It's had to get better since he started doing a lot of programming, because computers are completely befuddled by misspelled words.
No offense taken in all that, I hope.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by compmage, posted 06-12-2003 3:53 PM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Quetzal, posted 06-17-2003 3:29 AM truthlover has not replied
 Message 73 by compmage, posted 06-17-2003 7:04 AM truthlover has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5958 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 72 of 78 (43096)
06-17-2003 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by truthlover
06-13-2003 12:07 PM


My former business partner was one of the most brilliant biologists (or people in general) it's ever been my pleasure to deal with - but he couldn't construct a grammatical sentence to save his life. I spent an inordinate amount of time re-writing the reports we submitted to our contractees and counterparts...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by truthlover, posted 06-13-2003 12:07 PM truthlover has not replied

compmage
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 73 of 78 (43104)
06-17-2003 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by truthlover
06-13-2003 12:07 PM


truthlover writes:
It's had to get better since he started doing a lot of programming, because computers are completely befuddled by misspelled words.
I'm also a programmer. I had some problems remembering to use the American spelling for many words (since that is what the compiler is expecting).
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by truthlover, posted 06-13-2003 12:07 PM truthlover has not replied

contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 78 (43118)
06-17-2003 10:04 AM


Truthlover wrote:
quote:
We have been sending food to Africa for fifty years, and starvation has continued for fifty years. Only now the population is greater, so the numbers starving are greater.
Possibly. Although that reads at first glance as if the initial famine to which we react has not death toll.
I think that this claim is badly, badly wrong for too many reasons to go into on this board, probably. It starts from a false premise that these famines are in some way normal acts of nature. But that is not by any means the whole picture... for example, if your state is crippled by debt, despite having paid it off several times over, then there is very little liquidity in the system to invest/improve or to react to a crisis.

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Geno, posted 06-17-2003 9:42 PM contracycle has not replied

Geno
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 78 (43235)
06-17-2003 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by contracycle
06-17-2003 10:04 AM


Food Aid
or as in the case of Somalia and many others, caused by fighting.
Or as in the brewing catastrophe in Zimbabwe, by the actions of one real jerk.
I imagine Compmage could enlighten us on that one...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by contracycle, posted 06-17-2003 10:04 AM contracycle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by compmage, posted 06-18-2003 3:47 AM Geno has not replied

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