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Author Topic:   where are the WMD?
gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 16 of 78 (38814)
05-02-2003 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
04-19-2003 10:32 AM


Hey Schraf.
If Bush doesn't find those WMD after all, I'll let you explain those thousands of gas masks, nerve gas antidotes, and documents in Arabic explaining how to wage chemical warfare.
I know you and your fellow supporters of Saddam think you smell blood. We'll see. But at least I wasn't doing everything I could to keep a tyrant in power.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 04-19-2003 10:32 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by wj, posted 05-02-2003 7:14 PM gene90 has replied
 Message 26 by nator, posted 05-05-2003 8:56 AM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 17 of 78 (38816)
05-02-2003 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Peter
04-23-2003 10:23 AM


quote:
If I own a gun can I be arrested becuase I might commit a
murder with it?

You can if you're a convicted felon.
Saddam signed a peace fire agreement requiring disarmament.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Peter, posted 04-23-2003 10:23 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Peter, posted 05-11-2003 4:03 AM gene90 has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 18 of 78 (38817)
05-02-2003 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by compmage
05-02-2003 7:57 AM


quote:
How many Africans will suffer because of monies being diverted to Iraq?
America doesn't have to send aide to Africa, we can divert funds anywhere we like because it is our money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by compmage, posted 05-02-2003 7:57 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by wj, posted 05-02-2003 7:36 PM gene90 has replied
 Message 45 by compmage, posted 05-06-2003 5:45 PM gene90 has replied

wj
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 78 (38823)
05-02-2003 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by gene90
05-02-2003 7:00 PM


Perhaps the Iraqi gas masks were for protection against it by use by the world's largest holder of weapons of mass destruction such as biological weapons, chemical weapons and nuclear weapons who had been threatening to invade the country.
Did the US prepare their weapons of mass destruction for deployment and use in Iraq (including instructions) for "retaliation" against Iraq if it should choose such weapons to resist an invasion by an aggressor?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:00 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:53 PM wj has not replied

wj
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 78 (38826)
05-02-2003 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by gene90
05-02-2003 7:05 PM


"America doesn't have to send aide to Africa, we can divert funds anywhere we like because it is our money."
Such self serving stupidity. The ugly American lives on as isoloated and stupid as ever. What do you think is the reason that anti-American groups find fertile ground in various countries? Jealousy of American freedom and liberty? LOL.
Perhaps if US citizens, company and government were not so busy exploiting others then it might have some moral claim to directing where there money is directed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:05 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:55 PM wj has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 21 of 78 (38829)
05-02-2003 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by wj
05-02-2003 7:14 PM


quote:
Perhaps the Iraqi gas masks were for protection against it by use by the world's largest holder of weapons of mass destruction such as biological weapons, chemical weapons and nuclear weapons who had been threatening to invade the country.
Hey Wj, if an army were preparing to defend itself against chemical weapons, don't you think they would have broadspectrum antidotes instead of thousands of injectors filled with only one antidote (atropine)?
quote:
Did the US prepare their weapons of mass destruction for deployment and use in Iraq (including instructions) for "retaliation" against Iraq if it should choose such weapons to resist an invasion by an aggressor?
Nope.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by wj, posted 05-02-2003 7:14 PM wj has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 22 of 78 (38830)
05-02-2003 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by wj
05-02-2003 7:36 PM


quote:
Such self serving stupidity.
What? That we can decide where we send our money?
Do you think America owes you something?
Right now Bush is in the process of signing off on $15 billion USD to help save foreigners from AIDS. Why? Because we are a compassionate nation. You think we have to do this? No, we can stop handing out checks any time we like. I know for a fact that there are lots of ways we could spend that money on ourselves.
quote:
Perhaps if US citizens, company and government were not so busy exploiting others
Actually, if you were better informed, you would know that France and Russia are the nations that profitted off Iraq for thirty years. No wonder they opposed the war...
quote:
The ugly American lives on as isoloated and stupid as ever.
Personally, I don't care what other countries think about the US. They're pretty much irrelevant to my daily life. The United States will continue to prosper regardless of what some pissed off French (or a few disgruntled Australians) think of us.
[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-02-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by wj, posted 05-02-2003 7:36 PM wj has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by wj, posted 05-03-2003 6:58 AM gene90 has replied
 Message 25 by DBlevins, posted 05-05-2003 1:15 AM gene90 has replied
 Message 27 by nator, posted 05-05-2003 9:03 AM gene90 has replied

wj
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 78 (38851)
05-03-2003 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by gene90
05-02-2003 7:55 PM


quote:
Personally, I don't care what other countries think about the US. They're pretty much irrelevant to my daily life. The United States will continue to prosper regardless of what some pissed off French (or a few disgruntled Australians) think of us.
Do you think that this sort of attitude might have generated the sort of resentment which mightr have precipitated the 9/11 attack? You are prepared to accept the benefits which exploitation and injustice inflicted by American governments and corporations may inflict but presumably not the consequences. Such an ostrich attitude to the actions of your government and corporations may rebound on you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:55 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by gene90, posted 05-03-2003 12:30 PM wj has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 24 of 78 (38861)
05-03-2003 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by wj
05-03-2003 6:58 AM


quote:
Do you think that this sort of attitude might have generated the sort of resentment which mightr have precipitated the 9/11 attack?
Actually, I think the 9/11 attacks were precipitated by the fact that the US is an obstacle to a fundamentalist Islamic state in the Middle East as envisioned by Osama bin Laden, and because bin Laden was pissed at the Western Devil placing troops in Holy Saudi during the first Gulf War. And also because we are allies of Israel.
So, maybe you can explain to me your theory on the motivations behind the Bali bombing? Since Australia supposedly has such a clean record?
quote:
Such an ostrich attitude to the actions of your government and corporations may rebound on you.
I think the rebound here is against the terrorists. When bin Laden attacked us on 9/11, we have responded by invading and toppling two Arab governments hostile to the US, including the fundamentalist one that was giving him shelter. We have the other terrorist-supporting gov'ts in a tough diplomatic situation (ie, Syria, with the Fourth Infantry Division on one border and Israel on the other, and Iran, with American troops in Afghanistan on one side, and Americans in Iraq on the other) and we have a president that talks hard and has no problem with sending troops into battle, and is currently telling us that there are more military actions ahead in his War on Terror. Almost 50% of al-Qaeda's leadership has been captured or killed, including their main planner, "sleeper" cells in the United States are being rounded up, their international banking accounts are being frozen left and right, and yesterday Pakistani police foiled their next attack, hijacking a Pakistani airliner and flying it into the US consulate. Where were they going to make their attack? Pakistan, not the US. It seems that they have had to retreat back into the Middle East and in all probability they are going to be retreating even further back in the months ahead.
But I personally don't think we are being aggressive enough in the War on Terror. I think we should extend our attacks at least to Hamas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by wj, posted 05-03-2003 6:58 AM wj has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3862 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 25 of 78 (38960)
05-05-2003 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by gene90
05-02-2003 7:55 PM


Gene,
I wonder how, in your blind idolatry of President Bush, you fail to see the facts behind those cases you quote of his "humanity" toward poeple in the world who are not American. The Aids epidemic has been going on in Africa for quite some time, and now we are hearing of this supposed 15$B aid to Africa. It is a travisty that we have not sent more help to them sooner. On the subject of Bush's propposed aid package, you might want to check up on how much money is actually going to those countries that need help and not to line the coffers of american companies. Also, instead of the money going to the Global Aids Fund which is set up to efficiently handle these types of donations, only 10% of the money is going to them, and the rest is going to be set up by a U.S. agency. Here we have an opportunity to use a structure set up to fight aids but instead we are going to have to create a new government agency. It also seems that though Bush describes the aids epidemic as an "emergency", the little money coming in, after special interests have taken what they need from the fund, won't arrive until 2004!
Though I am somewhat hesitant to link opinion pieces, I think that it does give some insight into the problems that exist with Bush's proposal.
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/...02/17/opinion/7319.shtml
Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes
Analysis - President George W. Bush's surprise call urging an "Emergency Plan for Aids Relief" targeted at the "most afflicted" nations of Africa and the Caribbean has been applauded for the new attention it brings to HIV/Aids. But because most of the money will be applied bilaterally - directly from Washington to recipient countries - there is concern that the UN-sponsored Global Fund to Fight Aids, Tuberculosis and Malaria will be undermined.
http://www.columbiaspectator.com/...2003/03/14/3e71856436093
Some may say that just by making such a pledge as Bush did, that he is doing something great, but he also pledged 500$M to the Global fund and later reneged. Again we see it is an emergency in his mind, eh? I think its great, if its true, that the money will go to africa or be directly involved in helping to stop the spread of aids globally. I have serious reservations on the veracity of Bush's statements, though. I seem to recall, though I could not find the article, that a majority of the money he is proposing will go to US pharmacutical companies. Though arguably this is good in that you expect a cure to come from those same companies, those same companies were recently trying to stop cheap drugs being created to help in the fight. They would lose money was the argument, though the pharmaceutical industry spends billions just in "sales promotions" to pharmacies.
I'd like to respond more to the post but for now I need to get back to my finals studying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:55 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by gene90, posted 05-06-2003 2:38 PM DBlevins has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2256 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 26 of 78 (38988)
05-05-2003 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by gene90
05-02-2003 7:00 PM


quote:
Hey Schraf.
If Bush doesn't find those WMD after all, I'll let you explain those thousands of gas masks, nerve gas antidotes, and documents in Arabic explaining how to wage chemical warfare.
I know you and your fellow supporters of Saddam think you smell blood. We'll see. But at least I wasn't doing everything I could to keep a tyrant in power.
You are way, way out of line for EVER calling me a Hussein supporter.
I would never want to be put in the same category as Rumsfeld and Reagan.
Apologize or lose a playmate for good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:00 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by gene90, posted 05-05-2003 7:57 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2256 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 27 of 78 (38989)
05-05-2003 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by gene90
05-02-2003 7:55 PM


quote:
Personally, I don't care what other countries think about the US. They're pretty much irrelevant to my daily life. The United States will continue to prosper regardless of what some pissed off French (or a few disgruntled Australians) think of us.
It's a global marketplace, Gene.
We piss off the rest of the world enough and our economy is going to suffer. Americans won't be able to travel safely, people will boycott our trade, tarrifs will go up and new markets will not welcome us.
Oh, and why don't you tell all the families of the people who died in the WTC on Sept. 11th that how the rest of the world views us isn't worth thinking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by gene90, posted 05-02-2003 7:55 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by gene90, posted 05-05-2003 7:40 PM nator has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 28 of 78 (39031)
05-05-2003 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by nator
05-05-2003 9:03 AM


quote:
We piss off the rest of the world enough and our economy is going to suffer. Americans won't be able to travel safely, people will boycott our trade, tarrifs will go up and new markets will not welcome us.
Ahhhhhhhhhh. So as long as they buy our goods, we don't need to call to them to task on nasty things they do like cut tongues out, or gas their towns.
Do you have a clue how hypocritical you sound?
And by the way, we're the biggest economy in the world right now. I think the the 'economic persuasion' is actually working in the opposite direction. If our trade with France were suddenly cut off who did you think would feel it worse, us or them? No contest!
quote:
Oh, and why don't you tell all the families of the people who died in the WTC on Sept. 11th that how the rest of the world views us isn't worth thinking about.
Personally, Schraf, I suspect some of the families of 9/11 victims might like to have "a few words" with you. You could bring your soapbox and educate them on how our foreign policy killed their loved ones, how we shouldn't be proactive in toppling terrorists and their sympathizers, and how we have no right to go around telling other countries what to do and why we shouldn't wave our flags and support the president in the war in Iraq.
I would rather just wait outside the door and casually wander off. Quickly.
[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-05-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by nator, posted 05-05-2003 9:03 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 05-05-2003 10:16 PM gene90 has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3909 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 29 of 78 (39034)
05-05-2003 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by nator
05-05-2003 8:56 AM


quote:
You are way, way out of line for EVER calling me a Hussein supporter.
Somebody got worked up.
Let's use some critical thinking. Bush asks Saddam to leave. Saddam tells Bush where to go. Bush threatens to send 4ID in to get rid of Saddam. Anti-war crowd wants to stop war. Stopping war would result in Saddam remaining in power in Iraq.
Because the consequence of no war = more Saddam:
Anti-War = Pro-Saddam
The very act of protesting the war is endorsing the regime of Saddam Hussein and prolonging the torture of the Iraqi people.
Do you challenge that view?
While I believe I made this connection independantly, I'm not the only one who formed this opinion.
NapaSentinel.com is for sale | HugeDomains
http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-2-88-983.jsp
quote:
Apologize or lose a playmate for good.
I cannot change the implications of your political beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by nator, posted 05-05-2003 8:56 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by crashfrog, posted 05-05-2003 10:20 PM gene90 has replied
 Message 34 by Silent H, posted 05-06-2003 1:04 PM gene90 has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1553 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 30 of 78 (39041)
05-05-2003 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by gene90
05-05-2003 7:40 PM


You could bring your soapbox and educate them on how our foreign policy killed their loved ones, how we shouldn't be proactive in toppling terrorists and their sympathizers, and how we have no right to go around telling other countries what to do and why we shouldn't wave our flags and support the president in the war in Iraq.
Not to jump into a topic that's clearly beyond my years to speak of but...
As an aside, I thought you might be interested to know that a number of the 9/11 WTC victim's families have expressed exactly these sentiments - that the deaths of their loved ones shouldn't be used as moral capital to support a needless war. A number of them were against the war in Afghanistan, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by gene90, posted 05-05-2003 7:40 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by gene90, posted 05-06-2003 2:43 PM crashfrog has not replied

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