|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: rat mothers | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
EZscience Member (Idle past 5153 days) Posts: 961 From: A wheatfield in Kansas Joined: |
...Or if she feeds one of the kids to the other two
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
...Or if she feeds one of the kids to the other two Well it works, but it might be less efficient ...could it be, is thermodynamics tangentially on topic??
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
EZscience Member (Idle past 5153 days) Posts: 961 From: A wheatfield in Kansas Joined: |
Yes, I know it seems inefficient, give the loss of energy through double assimilation processes, but let's look at the ecological context in which this behavior usually occurs.
When an eagle mother starts out with a brood of 2 chicks feeding both of them, food is abundant early in the season with no way to say how good the supply will be later when the chicks are larger. So the smaller, weaker one represents a store of food for the older one for later, in case its needed. (In some species the siblicide is facultative - only if needed - in others it is obligate). There is no other way for the mother to store food for later in the season except by temporarily turnign it into a chick. This is called the 'icebox hypothesis', orgiinally proposed by Alexander in 1974 (Ann. Rev. Ecol. System. 5:325-383 - if you're interested). Another example from insects. Most lady beetle mothers lay eggs in clusters so that some eggs serve as food for the first larvae to hatch. That way, their survival is improved when they have to go forth and seek out their first prey (aphids). If mom wanted to prevent this sibling cannibalism, all she would have to do is lay eggs singly - but she doesn't. In terms of theory, she is acting to maximize her minimum fitness (reducing her chance no offspring will survive), as opposed to shooting for maximum fitness (trying to get all eggs to survive).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
if you didn't get all the information it is your failing. the information has been out there. immaterial. just because you wish you hadn't made that decision is not a reason to outlaw. It was only going through it that makes you realize it is wrong. Of course I examined the information that was "out there". Like having a child. People with kids try to explain to people without kids what it is like, but there is no way to know unless you actually experience it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Gee, I wonder if any of the animals read the article and had something to say about it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
It was only going through it that makes you realize it is wrong. wrong for you. there are people who have gone through it and realized that it is not wrong. it is difficult, yes. it is regrettable, perhaps. is it wrong? no.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You couldn't have, if what you told me was true. You said that you were ignorant of adoption, and that you never even thought of it as an option. Surely adoption was mentioned in the materials you reviewed regarding your various choices?
quote: Yeah, you don't see people who regret having kids trying to legislate other people from having them.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I was not ignorant of adoption. It wasn't an option, when you do not want to bear a child at all.
Surely adoption was mentioned in the materials you reviewed regarding your various choices? No "material" was given to us, no consuling either. Just set up an appointment, walk in, rip it out, have a nice day, see ya.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Yes, if you make the choice that you do not want to bear a child at all, then a safe and legal abortion is available to you. Adoption was an option that you rejected because you and your girlfriend didn't want to carry the pregnancy to term. But it was, most assuredly, an option. You rejected it as not the best choice for you at the time. As you were not ignorant of it, it was an option you could have chosen, regardless of how quickly you rejected it. YOU are the one that took adoption off of the table. Just because abortion is legal didn't make adoption LESS of a viable choice for you.
Surely adoption was mentioned in the materials you reviewed regarding your various choices? quote: Did you seek any out, because goodness knows there are PLENTY of adoption agencies listed in the phone book. And didn't you just write that you "examined the information that was out there"? Which is it? Did you inform yourself or didn't you? Clearly, based upon what you've said, you were pretty determined to obtain the abortion, even though you were completely and fully aware that you could have either given the baby up for adoption once it was born, or kept it to raise yourself. So, that's what you did.
quote: Yeah, it's really bad when health care professionals assume that the women seeking abortions are responsible adults, able to make sound, informed decisions all on their own. From the sounds of it, you were quite uninterested in any other option besides an abortion and "set up an appointment, walk in, rip it out, have a nice day, see ya" is exactly what YOUR attitude seems to have been regarding the abortion. Funny that none of us who support abortion rights think of it that way at all. Look riverrat, for this entire thread you have repeatedly whined about how the culture, the people who made abortion legal, and anyone and everything else is to blame for your choice to get an abortion. All that you've said leads me to believe that you want the culture to be your parent. Well, it isn't. Not in a democratic society, anyway. You are an adult, and you have to make your own decisions as an adult, not as a child looking to avoid responsibility at every turn. AbE: Just because you apparently have a great deal of trouble making moral or ethical decisions for yourself without having some outside entity tell you what you can and cannot do doesn't mean that everyone else needs our culture to restrict our choices as narrowly as you seem to wish it would. You made a decision. It was one you clearly regret at this time. Grow up and deal with it. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-10-2006 07:43 PM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Funny that none of us who support abortion rights think of it that way at all. I don't think that way either. Otherwise I wouldn't regret it. But wake up, that is what is going on.
Look riverrat, for this entire thread you have repeatedly whined about how the culture, the people who made abortion legal, and anyone and everything else is to blame for your choice to get an abortion. Right, my choice, based on what I knew, and what I was taught.I don't see how you can define it any other way. Just because you apparently have a great deal of trouble making moral or ethical decisions for yourself without having some outside entity tell you what you can and cannot do BS schraf, we are all products of our surroundings. You fall into that category also. Your decisions are not anymore intelligent than what has been taught to you.
You made a decision. It was one you clearly regret at this time. Grow up and deal with it. Oh brother. I don't have a problem with my decision. I have a problem with abortion. Grow up and deal with it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
BS schraf, we are all products of our surroundings. You fall into that category also. Your decisions are not anymore intelligent than what has been taught to you. empty the jails! we're not responsible for our choices!
Oh brother. I don't have a problem with my decision. I have a problem with abortion. Grow up and deal with it. abortion is a decision. it's not like it's being forced on anyone. you made a decision you regret. it was not required of you. have a problem with yourself getting abortions, but stay away from the reasonable, responsible decisions of people who choose to think for themselves.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Ok, it's official.
Circle jerk.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
or just jerk.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
... and the key to many of the discussion we have here at EvC
riVeRraT posited:
Your decisions are not anymore intelligent than what has been taught to you. and therein lies the basic difference between the two bodies of posters here at EvC. I think he really beluieves that statement, as do many others here at EvC. They believe they are the sum of what they have been taught. There are two groups of thinkers in this world, those who look for answers to questions, and those who look for the questions to answers. riVeRraT, many folk are not the sum of what they are taught, infact some are even known to question what they are taught. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: If you didn't know enough, that's your fault. If you didn't think it through, it's your fault. Stop expecting the culture to protect you from your own negligence. Stop expecting the culture to be your parent, riverrat.
Just because you apparently have a great deal of trouble making moral or ethical decisions for yourself without having some outside entity tell you what you can and cannot do quote: We are each of us a product of our culture, yes. But, let us not lose sight of the start of this argument. You claim that murdering a 4 year old child is equivalent to having an abortion, yet when asked if you and your gitrlfriend should be tried and convicted for murder you say that because it was legal, you shouldn't be. That is a terribly self-serving contradiction, rat. Either you believe it's murder or you don't. Either you believe that murder is a crime or you don't. Decide what you believe, and then apply it to your own actions. So far, it certainly seems to me that you believe that having an abortion is a murder except when YOU did it. Again, let me repeat that this is a terribly self-serving contradiction.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024