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Author | Topic: interesting stuff:Sheldrake's morphogenetic field? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Aw come-on, where's your open mind?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Ringo, you are misrepresenting Tesla. You are describing Edison really in the way he worked, which Tesla scoffed at since he said he could be more effective applying theory rather than just experimenting.
In terms of the claims of non-Hertzian waves through the vacuum, called aether, back then. That is a claim Tesla maintained his entire life from his discovery in the 1800s until his death in 43 or 44'. Tesla demonstrated his claims, which is to his credit, not against it. Btw, Lord Kelvin visited Tesla and agreed that Tesla was demonstrating non-Hertzian waves.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Also, the claims he didn't have much use for things he had not built is somewhat silly. First off, Tesla had an unusual capacity for envisioning things, such as particle beam weapons designs systems he offerred to the Allies in WW2, but only Stalin took him up on it. He designed the Niagra falls power plant, btw, and we are still relying on his over 100 year old first generation technology in the power grid when Tesla claimed he had already obsoleted it by 1901.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: You are describing Edison really in the way he worked, which Tesla scoffed at since he said he could be more effective applying theory rather than just experimenting. Wrong. Tesla scoffed at Edison's "1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - i.e. he said that Edison could have saved himself a lot of work if he applied existing theories. Tesla put his theoretical knowledge to practical use - e.g. the AC motor. He did not grasp at every straw like you do. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Ringo, are you denying that Tesla claimed to harness non-Hertzian waves, that he had a different and from his perspective, a more fuller perspective and theory on energy?
The fact he could demonstrate his theories, which people like you rejected and reject today, is not a sign he held no theories, and no, he did not merely accept existing theory, and was severely criticized because existing and current theory today for the most part denied that what he demonstrated could actually occur, which shows you something of the bigotry often of mainstream science. I gave you the example of over-the-horizon radar which Tesla developed around 1900. All the mainstream people like you denied it was physically impossible and so just refused to accept it, period, experiments, demonstrations or not. We actually had to rediscover it in the 1950s because of such stupidity and slander by mainstream thinkers.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
The problem was that Tesla was a really lousy self-promoter. His more out-there ideas weren't so much "rejected" as invisible. It was only the ones that were commercially viable - e.g. the AC motor - that were known and accepted.
So, are you saying that we should swallow every nutty idea hook,line and sinker like you do, just because one or two of them might turn out to be a "Tesla"? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I don't think things like quantum entanglement are nutty, but real, observed phenomena. I also think the nuttiness is clinging to an outdated view of "material" which has essentially been redefined by quantum physics.
I'll grant you that Tesla was not a great self-promoter, and go as far as to say, perhaps mainstream science is not as intellectual pursuit as some believe it is, and that self-promotion is required, and so a poor salesman who is right may well lose out to an inferiour scientist and academic who knows how to sell himself. I do think of mainstream sciencem unfortunately, partly functions in this manner, but I hardly see how that discredits Tesla and his ideas. Basically, financial interests discredited Tesla's 2nd and 3rd generation technology because we were just building out his first generation stuff, and it would have bankrupted that enterprise, which is incidentally the largest industry in the world. So we still rely on Tesla's oldest technology, and we fight wars and such over scarce materials as a result.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
nwr, you do realize the guy that invented the electric motor, or the induction motor which relied on rotating electric field, agrees with Bearden, don't you?
I seriously doubt that. Tesla died in 1943, and I'm pretty sure that Bearden's nonsense is far more recent. Are you not aware that there is something of a cult of Tesla worshippers. Here are a couple of quotes from the wikipedia article on Tesla:
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
nwr, Tesla was maligned out of fear of his technology, especially it's capacity to bankrupt the power grid, which was also Tesla's technology. Additionally, as one of the greatest genuises in our nation's history, he was also very eccentric, probably neurotic.
But despite his personal failings, the guy invented radio, the induction motor, the AC/DC power system we use, and invented and pioneered and an early researcher a whole host of other things such as tesla coils widely used (probably in your pc), flourescent lighting, x-rays, efficient turbines, an early key aspect of the transistor, over the horizon radar, and a system of wireless distribution of power (something I am not sure anyone knows how to do today but he demonstrated), plans for particle beam weapons, etc,... The fact some so easily dismiss the guy when we still use his most primitive stuff, his early inventions, is very telling. In terms of non-Hertzian waves or energy from the vaccuum, no, Bearden did not originate this, but picked it up from Tesla and others that had picked it up from Tesla. That's just a fact. Why if we can tap the energy of the fabric of space-time (the vaccuum or aether) have we not done so? Simple, Tesla came out with it way too early.....land-line development and transmission of power (also Tesla) was still in it's infancy and too many massive financial interests had put too much money into it to lose it all just because Tesla, who had just worked very hard to prove his system was better than Edison's and they just adopted it, well now he was developing something that would bankrupt his already cutting edge technology. The man was just way too ahead of his times, but had we as a soceity appreciated him, we wouldn't be in the energy crisis we are in today, and we'd have a lot less environmental degradation and be far more advanced technologically.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
nwr, read the link you provided.
Tesla's diary contains explanations of his experiments concerning the ionosphere and the ground's telluric currents via transverse waves and longitudinal waves. The term "longitudinal waves" is the same term Bearden often uses and quotes Tesla.This is how they bankrupted him. Tesla didn't worry about money because he knew he had the right patents and would therefore be due royalties, but his lab was burned down with over a million dollars lost, and then they took away his radio patents, but interestingly awarded the patents back to him after his death.....a good look at real political power in action. In 1904, the US Patent Office reversed its decision and awarded Guglielmo Marconi the patent for radio, and Tesla began his fight to re-acquire the radio patent. On his 50th birthday in 1906, Tesla demonstrated his 200 hp (150 kW) 16,000 rpm Bladeless Turbine. During 1910-1911 at the Waterside Power Station in New York, several of his bladeless turbine engines were tested at 100-5000 hp. Later in 1907, Marconi was awarded the Nobel Prize for radio. Tesla was deeply resentful. In 1915, Tesla filed a lawsuit against Marconi attempting, unsuccessfully, to obtain a court injunction against the claims of Marconi. Around 1916, Tesla filed for bankruptcy because he owed so much in back taxes. He was living in poverty. ....... Tesla died of heart failure alone in the New Yorker hotel, some time between the evening of January 5 and the morning of January 8, 1943, at the age of 86. Despite selling his AC electricity patents, Tesla was essentially destitute and died with significant debts. Later that year the US Supreme Court upheld Tesla's patent number 645,576 in effect recognizing him as the inventor of radio. . So he was made broke, and the US courts refused to uphold his patents, especially for radio, until after his death. it's quite clear what happened. Note: he also developed if not invented radar.
Tesla, in August 1917, first established principles regarding frequency and power level for the first primitive radar units. [19] .... This message has been edited by randman, 03-17-2006 04:03 PM This message has been edited by randman, 03-17-2006 04:14 PM
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
At the time of his death, Tesla had been working on what he claimed was a teleforce weapon, or death ray. It appears that his proposed death ray was related to his research into ball lightning and plasma. After the FBI was contacted by the War Department, his papers were declared to be top secret. All of his personal effects were seized on the advice of presidential advisors, and J. Edgar Hoover declared the case "most secret", because of the nature of Tesla's inventions and patents. [22] They took his papers for a reason.....call him mad if you want, but the bottom line is he was right on most things.
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Son Goku Inactive Member |
agrees with Bearden, don't you? Not on everything, but Bearden is basically following Tesla's line
That couldn't be true. Most of the science Beardan is discussing (aside from being wrong) Tesla either didn't accept or didn't live to see. randman, you've just turned this into a thread about how maligned against Nikola Tesla was.However this doesn't impact what Bearden is saying.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
nwr, Tesla was maligned out of fear of his technology, especially it's capacity to bankrupt the power grid, which was also Tesla's technology. Additionally, as one of the greatest genuises in our nation's history, he was also very eccentric, probably neurotic.
Tesla's technology was better than Edison's, and that got him into a fight.
The fact some so easily dismiss the guy when we still use his most primitive stuff, his early inventions, is very telling.
I'm not dismissing Tesla. I was trying to caution you about the Tesla cult. But I see that is too late. You are already part of that cult. Linus Pauling did some great science. He also came out with a silly theory about vitamin C. The lesson from Pauling, Tesla, and many others, is that we should value the science on its own merit, and not become idolizers of the scientist. Even great scientists can make mistakes. You cannot assume that, because a scientist has done good work, therefore everything he does is good. You must evaluate each theory or invention on its own merits. When you instead evaluate it on the reputation of the scientist, you are becoming part of a cult following.
Bearden did not originate this, but picked it up from Tesla and others that had picked it up from Tesla.
I have more respect for Tesla, than to blame him for the absurdities in Bearden's web page.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
This does not appear to discuss the morphogenetic field. That is the topic. Untitled Document an example of another great scientist often derided, but proven correct on some points though maybe wrong on the Big Bang or others
Because his ideas often conflicted with the generally accepted or "standard" theories, Alfvén always had trouble with the peer review system, especially as practiced by Anglo-American astrophysical journals. "I have no trouble publishing in Soviet astrophysical journals," Alfvén once disclosed, "but my work is unacceptable to the American astrophysical journals." In fact, he never enjoyed the nearly automatic acceptance generally afforded senior scientists in scientific journals. "The peer review system is satisfactory during quiescent times, but not during a revolution in a discipline such as astrophysics, when the establishment seeks to preserve the status quo," explains Alfvén.
Service Unavailable This message has been edited by randman, 03-18-2006 04:03 AM This message has been edited by randman, 03-18-2006 04:08 AM This message has been edited by randman, 03-18-2006 04:13 AM This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 03-18-2006 10:22 AM
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Eta_Carinae Member (Idle past 4402 days) Posts: 547 From: US Joined: |
cavediver writes: Ditto. There's a lot of good stuff in there, but Tippler has always been a bit dubious with his mystical side. I think some it rubbed off on Barrow Ironic you would say that, since I thought you were John Barrow based upon reading your posts. Though you seem too young to actually be Barrow. This message has been edited by Eta_Carinae, 03-24-2006 01:32 PM
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