Mt. Ararat Anomaly

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You're avoiding the question. What would it take to convince you?

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This is false. Your question was quite specific: In case we didn't get it, you repeated it: I didn't avoid that question. I answered it. I said, no, finding a structure that resembled the description of Noah's ark given in Genesis would not lead me to believe that the Noachian flood occurred. And I gave my reason: it is far easier to believe that people built it in situ for purposes that may or may not be discernable upon examination of the structure than it would be to believe that all that we understand about physics and geology is utterly wrong.Now we have a new question? What would it take for me to believe that the global flood occurred in historical times? I answered that one, too. Unambiguous, physical evidence in the geologic/archaeologic record. If you want to talk about evidence, then bring it to the appropriate threads.--

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Actually, that's not what I said and I in no way inadvertantly or purposefully made your point for you.

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Oh? Well you then said:

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Actually, I said give me as much information pertaining to it as we are given in the Bible about Noah's ship.

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That is exactly what I was saying. Just finding a wooden structure itself is not enough to prove anything. We want confirmatory, independent evidence outside of the structure itself.Now, what does it matter whether the exact dimensions are given? What does it prove? I already pointed out that having the dimensions mentioned in the particular written account proves nothing; the structure could have been built in order to conform to the written accounts. Or the accounts could have been written with the already pre-existing structure in mind. All you did to answer this possibility was to express incredulity. In fact, you said: Suppose that we find a huge wooden Gilgameshian cube atop of Mt. Ararat. What is the explanation? You yourself admit that you find it next to impossible to believe that people could have built it there. What would be your explanation of such a structure?--

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Bottom line is that no evidence in favor of the Great Flood or Noah's Ark would be considered good enough because it doesn't fit into their a-priori naturalistic worldview.

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So whines the one who cannot supply any evidence whatsoever.--

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This discussion has proven useless in my opinion.

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That's too bad. I find these conversations amusing. Especially when the arguments are so bad and illogical, but no matter how one tries to point out the logical flaws, as well as contradictory evidence, the person just cannot grasp how bad his argument is.I hope that you don't go. Please, continue to take part in the threads that have been started for discussions of evidence for Noah's flood.

now build that ship out of wood with no modern glues or steel, keep the air fresh in all the cabins without electricity and the bilge clean without powered pumps.added by edit:http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/nepal_sherpas.html and
http://www.everest-sherpa.com.np/.../ev/briefofeverest1.htmlit seems that there are many tibetan sherpa villages above 12,ooo feet and they also have no problem reaching much more than 14,ooo foot elevations with no problemsenjoy.This message has been edited by RAZD, 04*05*2005 10:00 PM

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I remember some TV show about extensive platforms built at altitude in the Andes where mummies were found. Here is one of several links found to try to confirm this: http://www.mountain.org/reinhard/docs/academic/newsart.htmMummies and ceremonial sites at 20k plus...ABB

stone platforms.too cool, thanks. looks like the argument from incredulity on what early people did and were capable of doing is refuted.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

For whatever it's worth, Russian scientists have apparently weighed in on the non-Ark side:

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What were thought to be the remains of Noah’s Arc on Mount Ararat in modern-day Turkey were discovered to be natural formations by a group of Russian scientists.

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Scientists from the Kosmopoisk Scientific Research Center announced Friday at a press conference that there were no remains of Noah’s Ark on the mountain, the Interfax news agency reported.

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Everything that we saw, all the samples that we gathered testify to the fact that there is no Noah’s Arc on Ararat’s western slope, the news agency quoted Vadim Chernobrov, the center’s director, as saying.

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At least after the volcanic eruption of 1840 that destroyed everything, including petrified wood, there can be no talk of the remains of a ship being preserved.

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The expedition traveled to the western slope in the fall of 2004 and brought back video tapes and artifact samples. After a number of tests, the scientists discovered that the samples were the result of volcanic activity, and not the remains of Noah’s ship.

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From Russian Scientists Say No Noah’s Arc on Mount Ararat.I'd love to see the real report.

The Ark has been buried under the ice atop the perpetually snow-covered Mount Ararat. A secret has been kept by a Kurds' family over 4 generations in respect of the location of the suspected Arks' remain. In 2004, the first Chinese expedition led by The Media Evangelism Ltd entered the military base and filmed the Ark's remain in close distance. The footage of the Ark's remain, including the supernatural experiences of the crew on the elevation of 4,200 meters of Mount Ararat will be shown to the public through this documentary film coming to the local theatres this Easter.And I really watched them close to the anomaly and watched the broken wooden beam.The Days of Noah - HomeThe following link to the pictures they taken (on the bottom), you can see there's hole in the snow.
The Days of Noah - HomeThere's more, you can watch the DVD they filmed and more surprise, I really shocked when I watched it.

I'm predict that you are going to be very disappointed (again). and ...
again
and again...
and ...

I looked at all of the pictures but there was no evidence to be found in the photos. If and when you have some specific evidence that is reported in a peer reviewed journal and subject to independant scientific confirmation, please present it to us. Until then messages like this seem to be simply spamming the web to market your product. That is not an acceptable practice.Do not continue posting links to either site until you have some evidence to share.

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Hello, nelson, and welcome to EvC.You should read the other posts in this thread. Some of my best work, I think.Anyway, even if people found a wooden structure on Mt. Ararat, so what? What would this prove? That people can build wooden structures on mountains? But we already knew that.

But Ararat is a valconic mountain and also full of snow, it's impossible to find any wooden thing, I don't believe people bring these woods up to the mountain.This message has been edited by nelson, 07-27-2005 09:04 PM

Huh?

Well, which is easier to believe?That people brought wood up Mt. Ararat and built something?Or that an ark was deposited on a mountain during a flood that violates the known laws of physics, not to mention for which not one iota of evidence exists in the geologic or archaeologic record?My vote goes to the former.

Or what if Mt. Ararat in Turkey was simply named after the Ararat Mountains in the Bible?I wonder how many ranges have been named 'Ararat' since Noah's story was first told.

Indeed. In fact, considering that God scatter humans over the entire world after the Babel fiasco and that there is no indication that Abraham's ancestors were one of the ones not among the scattered, I guess that Mt. Ararat could be anywhere in the world.

That's what I was thinking. Noah could have landed in Antarctica for all we know.