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Author Topic:   All about Brad McFall.
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5064 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 106 of 300 (137620)
08-28-2004 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by 1.61803
07-29-2004 11:20 PM


I am crossed eyes by this time too!
REsults
The "entities" (that will assist in relimiting any difference of series and sequence (as to changes within) will result from Monod's "death". The specification being a means to judge, the selection regression of the non-life chemical equilbrium -PER STATIC temperature graphics - of the function presumed philosophically or better math (of real numbers with a rational substraction Russell couldn't find marginalized by Cantor purely). We will be able to do away with "asthetic judgment" by mature c/e postings. And this is why I did not think that Symasu was deadon with complexity and "valuejudgements". The illusion Mr Hambre knows too well.
The question we will be priveledged to answer in Monod's delimitation can be, "Is the functionality prohibited by the states" (that Gladyshev used).
"THERMOPHENES OF WING SIZE
The thermophene of wing size, whether measured as length or as area, is given by the first derivative of the function relating wing size to temperature-
dy/dt=yr
Its value is negative for the genetic combinations studied except for vestigial. It is held that the thermophene for purposes of studying genic action serves as a more adequate characterization of the genetic differences than the original phenotypic measurements. It also allows in cases where reciprocal heterozygotes differ and where consequently it seems that a cytoplasmic factor affecting the phenotypic quantity must be postulated - it allow for estimating the action of the cytoplasmic factor in terms of genic action referred to the phenotypic effects of the controlled genes."(Z)
We will not say this activity IS the Gladhyshev law until futher details until we can be certain to be able to identify IN THE FLY Georgi cited, the mature individual's removal, of cells,-say. Regardless there is ground both to combine Gladhsv's consideration of Mendel and decelleration of biological change AND Monod's as to this "control"/regulation etc.
SO WE DO NEED TO KNOW HOW TO FIGURE OUT WHICH bonds come first vs which are strongest, without having to sufficiently rely only on atomic nuclear heirarchies else biology will likely fail the IT transformation of economics and yet again another generation will fail to pick up these suggestions due to the research universities failure to unify NOT because of lack of research but for political reasons that might or might not be attached to Monod. They are not Russian.
The final consideration will be data seperation of effects of the scaled relations within an alleomorph series and between mutiple genes across categories of alleomorphs. This will cause the
t^(m)//t^(im)//t^(organell)//t^(org)//t^(pop)//t^(soc)
to become better defined in the ontogeny and phylogeny of the INDIVIDUAL FLIES used and (thus) sets an error, on the inequalities equal to that-of- when the lifetime of a population (of the flies) can live longer than the species itself (as to equilibria of reverse info flow and deductive forward process(es)) from the soma set by the genic action under reserved discussion by Monod as modified by my own rendering of Stan's "30. Two hypotheses are presented to account fro the action of the vestigial gene, one being based upon the production of an inhibitor and theother upon a deficiency phenomenon, the latter being favored, because it is more in accord with known phenomena."p494.
You might notice that Monod might have gotton THE SAME IDEA from ONE HYPOTHESIS and that would possibly be why he felt he did not need to cite this paper. Perhaps he has somewhere. I never looked. You see this is textual and yet the grammetology is not investigated.
Monod had said BOTH, "One could not even have begun to think seriously about the genetic code until it had been revealed, to begin with, that a protein is beyond the shadow of a doubt a polypeptide in which the amino acid residues really are arranged in a definite, constant, genetically determined sequence - and yet a sequence with no rule by which it determined itself" & "But Sanger's discovery, since it revealed a sequence that had no rule, where-"
and yet the TWO hypothesis of Stan might provide a DIFFERENT RULE than restricting the information by the code we currently discuss.
By so doing, if we succeed in haveing one logically plyed series of sequential orderings then we will have been able to USE phenomenological thermodynmics to RESPOND to Salthe's "instead... a vaguely hierarhic veiw...by...need to make visual representaions" with a HUMAN one which if furthered macromodynmaically will be able to handle the visual "need" by sorting the sequences (and changes in them) among stationary and nonstationary spontaneous vs nonspogenatous systems of processed entites in the exaple of independent external"" variable (inside of Gould).
Stan's statement came from his FIRST paper, not his more lengthy second.
"Experiments were begun in 1927. The writer's brief abstract which appeared in 1928 did not include a consideration of the so-called "critical temperature" for wing length. It was merely stated that the length of vestigial wing varies directly with the temperature, though not in direct proportion, and that there is a distinct sexual dimorphism which is not consistently in one direction at all temperatures but is dependent upon specific temperatures."
not Slathe 3 fold correlation as I, Brad Steven McFall, object from ("
Of course, it might be objected that in vivo this function is really spread throughout the cell while after death there remains a residual function in these so-called mitochondria. What we do now is to line up three justifications for our procedure (1) We use the principle of parsimony...(2) we use the principle of robustness...(3)we will...." as Slathe had just wrote, "Thus we can correlate function with our little vesicles..."p15. This would have to have been Herbert's "new" thing in Salthe's reason (which I objected to) and furthermore anyway Salth-he is agaisnt biological determinism.YOU may feel free to discuss this inter alia niche contrusction of cellular automata. I am not interested in that as of yet. I am not interested because Cornell could only RENAME stan's "straggler" with a label :unknown: causing me to be diagnosed without any realizing that this species was not man but only a fly. Perhaps Dobshanky's Christianity fluff nuttered the profs. I dont know.
PNAS "The pairing regions are presented in a fashion that stresses the order in which they are synthesized. The first region that may pair, necessarily at the 5'end of the leader, are placed on the top line. The second regions that may pair (assuming no interference from prceding pairing regions) are identified on the second line, and so on. The bottom line depicts the termintor region pairing region, always at the 3' terminus of the leader. Because in jmany cases pairing...Therefore we belive the important consideration is which paring region forms first and not which pariting region is strongest"p435
The reason we do not follow the logical ramifications anywhere is becuase of what Campell noted for the dimensional analysis of temperature.
"Temperature is the magnitude with which all those who have discussed dimensions find it most difficult to deal. A total neglect of these difficulties mught suggest doubsts of the complete adequecy of the exposition of dinealns offered here; accordingly, since at least one other volume of this treatise will have to be written before we are in a position to deal in detail with thermal conceptions (which present some of the most interesting probelmes in the principles of science) it may be well to offer a few remarks on that matter."
After an clear statistical thermodynamics were given of the thermostatic by CONTROLED flux volumes were continually defined we would be able to move on and decide if indeed this permits the descent from the peak but still we would need to have Provine's assertaion of wright "incomprehensibility" which Gould and by association I assume Lewotin all held to inside academia. That was there mistake, not ours. OUrs is only using more words were less still might not be better.
You see you need to compare all of my Grandfather's paper to Judson's INABILITY to comprehend Yudkins chemical dynamic equilibrium, the view it appears Monod was working from. Can not the "two-step" growth curves possibly give only ONE hypothesis of Stan's as to the sigmoid nature of the variation in length with temperature effects on DEVELOPEMTAL PERIOD and in Monod's case of lactose ( a Willard F. Stanley 'deficiency phenomena') the kinetic TIME gets the other inhinbitory governance. Monod might have simply USED the temporal asymmetry in two hypotheses for the same materialism by grammetically bUT NOT LEXICALLY extending the ploted data (of TWO DIFFERENT SMALL MOLECULES $While Stan only had found relevance of Arrehnius's work$) and if so might be partially to blame should accelearted drug discovery and Watson's feeling fail Wall Street.
I give you this INNATELY
as to Lerner's "co-adpatation"but
the elites only by coupled relations or are left undefined.
It is Very important industrially to figure out not if I am disabled but if pharmaseutical industry has us all Short Sheeted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Macrothermodynamics provides the means to lexically extend this information if called for while Monod ONLY had via the equilibrium what "would swing the percurso over to making the enzyme in quantity."Judsonp354. We do not know if this is the playground of known electron orbitals or the nanotechnological control via DNA computers. We do not want to learn 100yrs from nowby recovery of some electronic scraped internet recordsthat I was correct but left in the obscurity of all biologists who came after thier biological grandfathers.
This is the "new experience" we have on the net. It is not a veiledphillosophical rejection of the thing in itself. Inside and outside can be futher inverted on my view but not on theirs
This has to be consonant with some formation in group selection however to apriori work. Of course there is not stopping us going and getting the data sans theory.It would be a tough sell to make the "acquired fund" be either/or US eugenics+- the IQ controversy but I believe that this could be done by a humanities department sensitive to the SPACE of Walllace's "Everything and More A Compact History of &(infinity sign)".
We will have found a way to do by this time, "So, far discussion of expected selection responses from the quantitive point of veiw has been limited to mass selection. Considerably more complex forms of selection are possible in plant and animal breeding pratice. The choice of the most efficient method in any given situation is then a major problem. Breeders have long been acquainted with selection procedures based on attempts to evaluate a genotype in ways other than from the individual;s own phenotype. But the possiblity of arriving at a rational even inf notnecessarily the best, decsion in choosing between various options available was opened only after the techinques for estimating selection accrurcy (the regression of the genetic value on the criterion of selectgion) were developed."p153
CoNclusions
What is NOT NEW is the states of folding and unfolding. Cantor had asserted a painting and a muics score might have the same cardinal power of an infinite number that Aristotle IN THE SAME FORM would have rejected. I found that the state transitions of Georgi ARE this infinite or a better defintion of the continuum given bioloigcal metric traits that might cross loci or be multiple alleles no matter the stabilizing selection. Regardless, the follwing applied, "Evolutionary models with gaps We turn now to the problem of allowing gaps in the alignment of the leaf sequence. Gaps can be crudely introduced by treating '-' as an extra character in the alphabet of K residues and replacing the KxK -sized substitution matrix for residues with a (K+1) x (K+1)-sized matric that includes the gap character. This has the usual fault of making gaps at adjcent sites independent, and therefore not allowing for the tendecy for gaps to occur in blocks."
The gap expresses BOTH the (chr
omosome) bloc
k or the group selection affect.
In effect our synthesis provides that THERE IS NOT NECESSARILY A FAULT HERE!!!!! The creationist can come to this point but the evolutionist is still trying to count the angels on the pinhead without. Be clear and watch out. The word " block" is unfortunately 'polyvocal' here. One needs a further writing on Simpson to clear that possible confusion of. I was not confused. If you trust me you need not worry about this at all unless you really think that Wolfram can NOT sophisticatedly reduce universality in the matter analyzed here. If he succeeds he will have gotten a better defintion of artifical and natural selection and we would be grateful for that no matter what. I dont think he could put the hat on however.
WE find that death might indeed invert the relative weighting of strength even if not first and that macrothermodynamics might speficy the genic activity that continually maps this conclusion onto descriptive biological form-made. In particular by focusing on a particular entomolgical clade it seems possible that heat shock proteins provide the dynamics this kinematic LAYER makes without absolute kinetic information. This might be approached with the probalistic models of proteins and nucleic acids by a lot of computer power but I think at first that attempting to specify the parameters of chromotagraphic collum thermostat surround will lead to more ascertainable restults in real time.
We now attempt to update Salthe's condiseration interms of Kantian reason that Russel perceptively kept in a geodesic which will be denied by this fact of nondescriptive biology. Specifically Russel's seperatuion of ontology and epsitemology will be inadequate IN ANSWERING the question provided by phenomenolgoical thermo as to if the functionality is prohibited by the states. If the states are inhibited in this manner the subtraction of a rational from a bounded region of reals will project beyond the space. But I will try to express this interms of Calclus as you requested so that instead of simply finishing this paper with the relevant population genetics I will have to address issues of powers of contiguity no matter the Simpsonian ecospace. If necessary
as to continuing arguments with creationists over what Agassiz showed was a inference from a lack wrongly by early Darwinians
we will have to return to Russellp252 "In this passage, the remark: "There is that which goes before, and that which follows; there is distance or interval," if considered as an inference , is a non sequitur; the mere fact of order does not proove that there is distance or interval. It proves, as we have seen that tehre are streches,..."
Continuing then, Druverp240 "Although but a few studies have been made with respect to a quantitative estimation of the changes in a character over the range of a variable, yet the studies which have been made with reference to temperature indicate that there are several classe, as brought out in thefollwing disucssion....The same thing no doubt applies to the case of absolute cell constancy - about which, however, there seems to be some uncertainity- but if absolute cell constancy is an actual phenomenon, then here also the thermophene would be zero."p241
in order to be able seperate the effects IN ORDER I suggest using heat shock protein concentration as the domain of variation and look at the contributions to changes in the value due to "docking" on DNA vs entailment with OTHER proteins WITHIN the principle of substance stability. If idea of distance is accurate to Sathe's vesicualtion the error of not using a strech can be conceptually provided for in the spontateous vs nonspontaneous process of macrokinetics. It would only remain to be explained why Lewontin never saw this tail coming or if he did why he did not try to get ALL biologists to work on the INHERENT point sets molecularly. There is a very very very small amount of uncertainity here and to discriminate against creationists by preventing scholars of evolution to graduate by insisting on a psychological resolution is beyond credibility despite the fact that US Courts continue to perpetuate the appearence of UNIVERSITIES acting like psychiatric doctors and thus grading arbitarily the work of these students whoDO NOT HAVE TO TAKE ANY PSYCHOLOGY to graduate!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are led then to Georgi's symbolism for folded and unfolded states and the question if the functionality of the continuous mappings are PROHIBITED by the states that Monod noticed were freed in the limit of maximal selection. If heat shockproteins are sided in this regard it is possible that the inhibition BOTH he and Stan discussed were but a kinematic layer transition across a dielectric time event only and that states of protein folding not only affect other protein concentrations directly ( in the sense of regulation and control) but that PRIOR states of unfolding and folding as witnessed in linear chains rates of substitutions prevent this from functioning such that there IS PROHIBITION BY THE STATES.
Descripting these states is the last step before fullfilling the answer to the first question after the prior empirical sentence as to a "new" equilibrated set of macrokinetics. It is likely that some new kinds of sophisticated "code" manipulations will be needed. This is not a matter "breaking" a code but rather like Gamow did simplistically on a more elaborate scheme of macrothermodynamic sequences substituting the gaps with looping REALITIES of phenomenological thermodynmics. Certainly Faraday's ideas on thermal currents would greatly lessen this task if found to be adherent to the thermostat surrounding the motion that to a soul still could be conspiring nonethless. This reasoning can now be continued with absolute organism constancy and so I have answered snwk's query as to whose death or only chemical death we had be taklking on.
We approach instead the old equilibrium yet at Lerner's "In other words the explanations centering on selection which are currently invoked to explain the maintenance of variability is small populations are not complete. Itg may be that factors as yet unknown enter the picture or that the present interperetations of empirical evidence are in error or that our models are not valid. As of yet it cannot be decided which of these possibilites is the most probable one since of the factors already known, many (e.g. pleiotropy) have not been fully explored."
Snk if this is too much BS(M) I suggest you go back and answer my question directly or do some more reading of the primary literature than merely responding to me out of a sense of lack of sense. There may be a real difference in undertanding between you and mere over the sense perception that is best left to behaviorists than ecologists until the online environment is up to EVC standards AS A WHOLE. This means that just becaus a bunch of posters moved over onto other threads does not mean they were correct when they did so. If you seek instead for instance to explore organism constancy under sexual selection for example you will have the ability to discuss the philosophy of biology with the best and you dont need me as a sparing partner. The point in response to you is that the temperature life data might indicate that there are other circuits not even the Politics of Monod could connect. If such is the case Monod would be wrong actually even if he did not take a notion directly from Stan or Stan's "straglers"/hangers on. Much involves the SEPERATE notion of sex factors and if the continutiy is found seperately the issue lingering from the 30s can outstrip any change brought by the 60s wrongly by a generation a bit out of space. It was my brother's work that opened this place back up despite the older ability to find it on the phone. You had to think & talk now one simply has to turn a computer switch on. There is more to it than that even if digitally many only want that convience.
How this could be overshadowed by money is beyond me. The story of heat shock chaperon's "employedto stop daughters of upper class families from getting entangled in interactions considered inappropriate" as spelled in by Gross may be a sign that the thinking is still too elite for rather than taking this a clue and cue to "a new biological principle" Gross insisted with Anfinsen that "the sequence of a protein contains the complete information required for the formation of its three-dimensional strucutre."pages67-8 This all depends on if the gap blocks are really independent or not and not whether I committed adultry or not. It is sad that I am having to write the reading with my life when my eyes can follow the words without an magnifier. But I close this keeping to the question of why Monod's death, that's why- so that no other "daughter" need disappear nor become kissed to quantum entaglement. Last semester I couldnt inform the students at and around Cornell that they were being the taught the wrong dynamics and with the new builidings it is likely I will fail explaining what level they are really on. Ithaca is not a penthouse of NYC.
(Z) Hersh, Amos Henry, and Ester Ward 1932. The effect of temperature on wing size in reciprocal heterzygotes in Drosophila melanogaster J. Exp. Zool., v. 61, no. 2, Feb 5.
R.Dubin, S. Eddy, A. Krogh, G. Mitchison 1998 Biological sequence analysis Probabilistic models of proteins and nucleic acids Cambridge University Press
Elizabeth B. Keller and Joseph M.Calvo 1979 Alternative secondary structures of leader RNAs and the regulation of the trp, phe, his, thr and leu operons Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci USA Vol 76. No. 12. pp6186-6190, December
IM Lerner 1961 The Genetic Basis of Selection
(Y) Thermodynamics of Biological Evolution and Aging G.P.GLADYSHEV 2002 Adv, Geront
The Eigth Day of Creation Makers of the Revolution in Biology Horace Freeland Judson Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Press 1996
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-29-2004 11:30 AM
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-30-2004 06:03 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by 1.61803, posted 07-29-2004 11:20 PM 1.61803 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Snikwad, posted 08-29-2004 6:43 PM Brad McFall has replied

Tony650
Member (Idle past 4063 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 107 of 300 (137798)
08-29-2004 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Brad McFall
08-27-2004 11:31 AM


Brad writes:
Snikwad had tried to "clip" my wings here where he claimed that a simple yes or no was called for. Unfortunately it was not.
I'm afraid I haven't read this exchange between you and Snikwad but I understand your point, none the less. It is often necessary to give more than a simple "yes" or "no" answer. Just remember a couple of things when elaborating on an answer; try and stick to that one specific point, and don't elaborate too much.
One of the problems I have with your posts is that I find your train of thought very hard to follow. For example, in some cases you will appear to be focusing on a particular point and then suddenly, sometimes in mid-sentence, you will be somewhere completely different. That is to say, completely different from my perspective. There may be a connection, and perhaps it is obvious to you, but I'm afraid it is simply lost on me.
Other times, I simply can't follow your train of thought at all. For example, this reply to jar. The only part of it that I can make heads or tails of is perhaps "not necessarily with child". RAZD had mentioned that the model in the image jar posted was pregnant when the photograph was taken. So I figured this must be a reference to that fact.
Aside from that, I can honestly say that I haven't the slightest idea what the post is about. I've read it about ten times now and I simply cannot extract any meaning from it.
Incidentally, I'm not asking you to explain that post; I'm just using it as an example.
Brad writes:
Thanks for your reply. I have not taken anything you nor Snikwad for this matter (have said) in a bad way at all.
I'm relieved to hear that. Thank you.
I know I'm far too paranoid about these things, but at times I can't help but worry that you'll feel as though I'm "picking on you" or being disrespectful or whatever.
But as I've said before, I'm really only thinking of you, on this matter. Ultimately, it makes little difference to me or anyone else whether or not people can understand your posts, but obviously, it would make a significant difference to you. I'm glad that my attempts to help are received as they're intended.
I will admit that once again, your reply kind of lost me. So I thought I'd try a slightly different approach; I tried selecting a portion of your post and rewriting it. I did my best to change as little as possible but still write it, grammatically, as I would have.
I hope you don't mind me doing this; my goal was simply to see if the overall meaning would be any clearer to me with more familiar grammar and punctuation. Of course, this required me to determine, in advance, what each sentence was saying, so in the end I may be way off, but let's see.
Your original:
I will make one point from the above in this thread. I was finally able to pointly ask 0ook! a question as directly as possible. Snikwad may have felt he/she had done the same with me. It is often hard to tell on a first pass on the internet. Oook looked but refused to answer. NOW, I WAS ABLE TO REPHRASE the question luckly but often a poster will not be able to (to answer) once a question is asked as directly as possible. The reason that BOTH Oook!&Snikwad might have the same difficulty with me is that it IS POSSIBLE, on a certain PHILOSOPHY (but not necessarily mathematics) of Calculus to approach a data point equally (or not from two directions).
My rewrite:
I will make one point about the above. I was finally able to ask Oook! a very direct question and perhaps Snikwad felt that he/she had done the same with me. It is often hard to discern this on the first reading of a post.
Oook! looked at my question but refused to answer. Now, luckily, I was able to rephrase the question but often a poster will not be able to answer a direct question.
The reason that Oook! and Snikwad both have the same difficulty with me may be because it is possible, based on a certain philosophy of Calculus (though not necessarily the mathematics, itself), to approach a data point equally (or not from two directions).
So did I manage to capture the essence of what you were saying?
If so, that's good, but I'm afraid that even reading my own version doesn't make it completely clear to me. It makes it more clear than before, but a few spots still lose me, I'm afraid.
I should also point out that I chose that particular segment because, aside from the very first paragraph, this was the one I had the least trouble understanding.
Brad writes:
Again thanks for your reply.
You're quite welcome.
Brad writes:
Feel free to ask me any question about relative motion, the uNIverse, or Maxwell sphere etc., or quote something of your own, which you would like me to respond to in this thread.
Well, if there is one thread that I thought came up a little short, it was my discussion of higher dimensions, Dimensional Discourse. It's there if you're interested, but I must confess, I'm almost afraid to ask you to reply. It's a confusing enough concept, as it is; I have serious doubts as to whether or not I could handle your perspective on the topic.
Again, I intend no offense; I'm just being honest. Hopefully, there are still no hard feelings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Brad McFall, posted 08-27-2004 11:31 AM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Brad McFall, posted 08-29-2004 12:24 PM Tony650 has replied

Tony650
Member (Idle past 4063 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 108 of 300 (137799)
08-29-2004 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by TrueCreation
08-27-2004 9:54 PM


Re: did you survive Charley?
TrueCreation writes:
Thanks. Nice to be confused again
Heh, Brad does tend to have that effect, doesn't he?
Don't worry, TC; I'm working on him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by TrueCreation, posted 08-27-2004 9:54 PM TrueCreation has not replied

neil88
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 300 (137816)
08-29-2004 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Yaro
07-29-2004 8:40 PM


Brad
I like to think of Brad as the village idiot. Every community needs one. He has done for the English language what Hitler did for international understandng.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Yaro, posted 07-29-2004 8:40 PM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Ooook!, posted 08-29-2004 4:12 PM neil88 has not replied

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5064 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 110 of 300 (137831)
08-29-2004 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Tony650
08-29-2004 8:43 AM


yes-if you expect a probable result. I choose to re-present the improbabillty that deterministically we can understand some unknown coincidence as well.
as to no- I will later. I have merely uploaded all the thoughts I need(ed) to work from. I will be editing and correcting some of the connections in the quotes at this time. Please hold on.
Again fear not, this is ONLINE- as long as we dont exchange four letter words you should have no inhibitions. If there becomes a serious problem I simply read beyond where I have and get back into my own shell.
The Orang wants the relation of Cantor to Folded and Unfolded Proteins- in terms of equilibiria. I will do this but first I am trying to answer MY OWN question as to the adaptive landscape and the COMPREHENSIBILITY of Wright'sSHIFITING BALANCE that the elite shed no light on.Please wait.Under Construction.
There will not need to be some abstruse math to understand "dimensions" but only some talk of probabilities and statistics. I will do that on the way.
what you didnt understand was that inorder to answer snikwad I had to say something of a whole organism in terms of death either of the individual or the sum of chemical deaths within.That I did and the conclusion USED phenomenological thermodyanmics to reject a saying of Salthe as to a ^FALSE^ need to NEED visual representations.When You and I were talking this was clear that you can feel this motion or not even if you cant see it.Thus wny all the talk of coffee sugared is but salt of the sould etc.
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-29-2004 11:25 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Tony650, posted 08-29-2004 8:43 AM Tony650 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Tony650, posted 08-30-2004 12:58 PM Brad McFall has not replied

Ooook!
Member (Idle past 5846 days)
Posts: 340
From: London, UK
Joined: 09-29-2003


Message 111 of 300 (137879)
08-29-2004 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by neil88
08-29-2004 11:10 AM


I like to think of Brad as the village idiot.
Don't mistake Brad for an idiot. He knows exactly what he is doing. On top of that, his posts must be quite tricky to compose. If you don't believe me, have a look at one or two of them and think how difficult it must be to write line after line of gibberish and still maintain some sort of underlying (although admittedly very well hidden) meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by neil88, posted 08-29-2004 11:10 AM neil88 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Brad McFall, posted 08-30-2004 9:42 AM Ooook! has not replied
 Message 117 by Tony650, posted 08-30-2004 1:04 PM Ooook! has not replied

Snikwad
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 300 (137918)
08-29-2004 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Brad McFall
08-28-2004 11:54 AM


Re: I am crossed eyes by this time too!
Brad,
Sorry for the delayed response: I lost my password, so I couldn’t log on to post messages.
Brad McFall writes:
Snikwad had tried to "clip" my wings here where he claimed that a simple yes or no was called for. Unfortunately it was not.
I wasn’t trying to clip your wings. What I was trying to do was take this one step at a time. However, rereading my previous posts, I understand how you would have gotten the idea that I was attempting to clip your wings. I assumed we were on the same page when you agreed to take things step-by-step. For example, in post #97 you said,
I will take this in small constrictions.
I apologize for any misunderstanding. I wanted a yes or no answer in order to understand your future elaboration on the matter. Incidentally, you answered a few of my questions in your response to Tony650 located here. That post was what I was looking for in response to me-I’m glad it’s out there now.
I have not taken anything you nor Snikwad for this matter (have said) in a bad way at all.
I’m glad you haven’t taken anything I’ve said to heart, because I was merely trying to get the truth out from you. It really wasn’t (and still isn’t) meant to be taken in a negative manner.
I finally broke down and asked Snikwad to simply *choose* one a multiple list of lines and he STILL CHOOSE NOT to.
Oh, I see what you were doing now. I didn’t know it at the time-you could have been clearer. Fine, I’ll select a point now. Enlighten me as to the relationship between your grandfather and allostery-option two.
That leaves me with only an idea that we LEARN differently, but tells me NOTHING about the content underdiscussion, which all three of us (with O0(00K! now as well) circling like hawks, for a mouse that only exists in our minds even if it sits next to the computer screen).
Nice analogy, Brad. Yes, it is obvious that we all learn differently, but in your case, it is radically different. Not that that’s a bad thing, but it makes the communication of ideas difficult. I strongly suggest you take Tony650’s advice, as I’m sure it would help you make clearer posts.
Snk if this is too much BS(M) I suggest you go back and answer my question directly or do some more reading of the primary literature than merely responding to me out of a sense of lack of sense.
I think there may be a joke in there involving your initials, and BS. If that’s the case: LOL. Keep in mind, however, that I’m not NosyNed. I don’t believe that there’s BS in your posts-I believe you have difficulty getting your ideas down in writing. Out of curiosity, what does the S in Brad S. McFall stand for?

"Chance is a minor ingredient in the Darwinian recipe, but the most important ingredient is cumulative selection which is quintessentially nonrandom."
--Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Brad McFall, posted 08-28-2004 11:54 AM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Brad McFall, posted 08-30-2004 9:49 AM Snikwad has replied
 Message 118 by Tony650, posted 08-30-2004 1:06 PM Snikwad has replied

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5064 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 113 of 300 (138045)
08-30-2004 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Ooook!
08-29-2004 4:12 PM


So write you are. I do fear however that the last 'd" in ID has been writ but Neil did bring up a point that needs to reach a conclusion. I am not ready for YOU or HIM just yet, yet once I am then I will refer back to this,
"A man must be either a madman or a millionaire (if indeed the alternatives are distinguishable) to accept the offer. But is it quite certain that the test is a fair one? We can only be perfectly certain if it is quite clear that the offer is made for one occasion only and that, in making our decision whether to accept it, we are quite free from any idea of repetition of it. For if we are considering at all the result of a long series of offers, all accepted, then it would indeed be madness to accept; for what we assert in saying that one event is less probable than another is that in a sufficiently long series it will occur less frequently. Now it is extremely difficult to avoid such considerations when we are deciding whether to accept, because in practical life our actions are (or ought to be) always decided by a consideration of the effect of a long series of similar actions. Everyone may not admit as a universal prinicple Kant's ethical maxim, Act as though your action were to be made a general rule, but everyone applies it very widely. We often have to decide how to act in circumstances which we know will recur, and then, of course, we take into account the probable effect of our repeated action; we seldom know definitely that the circumstances will not recur, and if even we do know it, we have to act somehow; accordingly we act as we would if we know that they would recur.
I think therefore that if it is urged that our feeling of a different degree of knowledge about the happening of events of differnt probability is really a delusion, and that , when we think we have different knowledge about the happening of the particular event we are confsusing such knowledge with knowledge with knowledge of the result of a long series of similar events - "
p193 in "Foundations of Science The Philosophy of Theory and Experiment" by Norman Robert Campbell Dover NY 1957.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Ooook!, posted 08-29-2004 4:12 PM Ooook! has not replied

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5064 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 114 of 300 (138047)
08-30-2004 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Snikwad
08-29-2004 6:43 PM


Re: I am crossed eyes by this spaceoo!
It's "steven" without 'ph-.Duhhh-
It was all in good fun, the hit and all-shhhhhh!
Yes I didnt need to come back as hash at you indeed, but it was not me but the rest the of the board, that moved "off" the page. I would have been happy enough to have remained posting in this thread and trying to dig deeper into some of your questions.
Some other posters moved a bit too fast for me so I had to get around the nonequilibrium issue faster than I wanted. That is simple - add a space or a "-". That's all for now, now I need to do some editing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Snikwad, posted 08-29-2004 6:43 PM Snikwad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Snikwad, posted 09-02-2004 6:28 PM Brad McFall has not replied

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5064 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 115 of 300 (138069)
08-30-2004 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Yaro
07-29-2004 8:40 PM


the color of V
I am not ready to go into issues of a demon vs cellular automata on the supposition that no change in our understanding of physiology is so such consequent but you all might proceed by trying to sense that I reject Salthe's
"Thus, three adjecent levels should provide for a minimal description of any complex diachronic system. I woulod like to emphasize that not only is this triadic structure sufficient for the job, it is also necessary; and any formulation or description short of this will be inadequate and of no interest to those pursing complex phenomena."
.
That had put doubts in my understanding that the niche constructors (whom are attempting to engineer anthropomorphic (in my op) ecosystem webs) got "our" generation right when they said,
quote:
It is not enough, however, for each generation to inherit old semantic information from parents and ancestors as a consequence of past natural selection. The semantic information must also be repeatedly restested and updated by the acquisitions of new semantic information in each generation as a consequence of current natural selection pressures. These within-generation updating processes are different from the between-generation transmission processes. For example, they are not are not reducible to conventional information flows between transmitters and receivers."
already cited.
I THINK THAT iS False.
The notion of filtered transmission and reception might *still* translate in supramolecular chemistry where Lehn had "
Nanotscience and nanotechnology have become and will remain very active areas of investigation, in view of both their basic interest and their potential applications. Here again, supramolecular chemistry may have a deep impact. Indeed, the spontaneous but controlled generation of well-defined, functional architectures of nanometric size through self-organization offers a very powerful alternative to nanofabrication and to nanomanipulation, providing a chemical approach to nanoscience and technology (7). One may surmise that rather than having to stepwise construct or top-down prefabricate nanostructures, methodlogies resorting to self-organization from instructed components will be developed. The reversibility and dynamic features of such supramolecular architectures confers to them the potential to undergo healing and adaptation, processes of great value for the development of "smart nanomaterials"."
One might try adumbrating from Kant -- "Grant that a thing absolutely begins to be; we must then have a point in time which it was not. But how and by what can we fix and determine this point in time, unless by that which already exists? For a void time - preceding - is not an object of perception; but if we connect this beginning with objects which existed previously, and which continue to exist till the object in question begins to be, then the latter can only be a determination of the former as the permanent. The same holds good of the notion of extinction, for the presupposes the empirical representation of time, in which a phenomenon no longer exists."
Hint::: seperate behaVVVioUUr and ECOlogy.
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-30-2004 10:18 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Yaro, posted 07-29-2004 8:40 PM Yaro has not replied

Tony650
Member (Idle past 4063 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 116 of 300 (138116)
08-30-2004 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Brad McFall
08-29-2004 12:24 PM


Hmm...I'm afraid you lost me again, but let's see...
Brad writes:
I have merely uploaded all the thoughts I need(ed) to work from. I will be editing and correcting some of the connections in the quotes at this time. Please hold on.
If you mean that you will be writing your reply offline, please take your time. There is no hurry; the most important thing is that it is comprehensible.
Try performing a test on your prospective posts; read them out loud and ask yourself if they sound anything like what you would say in person at, say, a lecture.
Brad writes:
Again fear not, this is ONLINE- as long as we dont exchange four letter words you should have no inhibitions.
Well, I certainly wouldn't do that. I never insult anyone (at least, not intentionally), unless of course they deserve it.
But seriously, I'm far too easily hurt myself, so I generally try to avoid heated topics. I even had my doubts about addressing you on your posts; I wasn't sure how you'd take it. You seem fine with it, though (at least, as far as I can tell).
Brad writes:
There will not need to be some abstruse math to understand "dimensions" but only some talk of probabilities and statistics. I will do that on the way.
I already understand the "fundamentals" of dimensions; it is some of their logical conclusions I wish I could truly comprehend (such as four dimensions and higher). I am not familiar with the math but I understand the 3D analogues (within reason).
Brad writes:
what you didnt understand was that inorder to answer snikwad I had to say something of a whole organism in terms of death either of the individual or the sum of chemical deaths within.
You mean in the paragraph of yours that I rewrote? If I actually changed its intended meaning, that wasn't what I was trying to do. On the contrary, I was trying to determine its meaning. Unfortunately, even reading my rewriting doesn't really do that, I'm afraid.
Brad writes:
Thus wny all the talk of coffee sugared is but salt of the sould etc.
Is this a reference to your post in the Coffee House? If so, don't worry about explaining that post to me; I was only using it as an example.
As I said, the most important thing is for you to make your points clearly, even if you only discuss them one at a time. It would be far more beneficial (to you, most of all) than squeezing a thousand points into a single post that nobody can comprehend.
Good luck composing those replies. Remember, read them aloud.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Brad McFall, posted 08-29-2004 12:24 PM Brad McFall has not replied

Tony650
Member (Idle past 4063 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 117 of 300 (138117)
08-30-2004 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Ooook!
08-29-2004 4:12 PM


Ooook! writes:
Don't mistake Brad for an idiot. He knows exactly what he is doing.
What is it they say about genius and insanity?
But seriously, I don't think Brad is an idiot, either. In fact, he strikes me as reasonably knowledgeable and intelligent. I honestly think his only real problem is translating his thoughts into writing. That's why I suggested he try reading his replies out loud before posting them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Ooook!, posted 08-29-2004 4:12 PM Ooook! has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Brad McFall, posted 08-30-2004 6:41 PM Tony650 has replied

Tony650
Member (Idle past 4063 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 118 of 300 (138118)
08-30-2004 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Snikwad
08-29-2004 6:43 PM


Re: I am crossed eyes by this time too!
Snikwad, where is the exchange that Brad is referring to? Is it back in this thread, or another one? Just wondering.
EDIT:
Snikwad writes:
I strongly suggest you take Tony650’s advice, as I’m sure it would help you make clearer posts.
Thanks for the accolade, Snikwad.
I'm not sure how long you've been reading EvC, but I'm sure that many people here would say I'm tackling the impossible. Still, I've always liked a challenge.
This message has been edited by Tony650, 08-30-2004 12:42 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Snikwad, posted 08-29-2004 6:43 PM Snikwad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Snikwad, posted 09-02-2004 6:22 PM Tony650 has replied

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5064 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 119 of 300 (138225)
08-30-2004 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Tony650
08-30-2004 1:04 PM


The long post above that I said I wanted to edit brought a discussion up to the "level" of an organism, a you or me say. The real discussion of evolutionary theory however is on the population level. The following is where I am at at that level by being as objective as I can be. It is not "impossible" to understand ME. There is a reason that internet sights cite the light in c/e at all and that is what is "impossible". I have always said that there was a resolution to the whole parental created mess and I am indeed finding part of the means to end the "debate". I would have rather had a carrer as an empirical biologist but there is a significant amount of theory and philosophy to be done BEFORE the world is ready to have this writing behind us and theory and experimental biology as there is in physics. Dobshansky had noted that genetics had "gotten" into the place physics was for a while and Wright's last Volumes if used would bring GENETICS this far but modern molecular biology has raised a few more functionalities that are NOT a priori generalized in part for reasons we DO DISCUSS TO STALEMATES or STERILITY here on EVC. See the following for my latest on c/e rather than the methods and material means to this end.
It seems to me that the whole current c-e difference of opinion as to the theoretical input has to do with a footnote of Campbell. But because there has been an historical justification first from variation and then (now) to continuity (due to speculations on multiple levels) there had NOT been an ability to address NONCREATIONIST limits to change by selection in total. There may be creationist ones as well. And in light of the failure of the current generation of evolutionary teachers to make this a scientific difference not making evolutionary theory into a "religion" increasingly burdens any student because of this thinkable trend that includes both a) that sense of Wright's correct position on since it takes so very long for dominance to be evolved that Fisher is most likely mistaken and b) that sensical cognitions of deceleration by Gladyshev's macrothermodyanmic law exists. So after the sentence above there IS CREATIONIST BIAS but this is due to failure (including the failing of good students of biology for wrong or arbitrary reasons) of evolutionists and not creationists from properly ordinating the CHANGES in the formulations of a faithless/practical discipline. This became heir apparent when Kimura attempted to understand and calculate within the Wright-Fisher difference but because of the extreme difficulty of keeping connected WITH WORDS levels of organization and pricipally by a political association without the proper critical philosophy of B Russell"history of logic" in the emergence of the discipline of the philosophy of biology there also did not appear the necessary logical attitude to extend biogeographically the knowledge already available both to creationists and evolutionists. This can be clearly explained and demonstrated by a careful examination of the filiation against creationists between Dawkins and Gould WHILE AT THE SAME TIME noticing the differences in their views. This would be a mistake because it is not to-a-person that the future betterment will result but simply by training a wider appreciation of what thoughts must accompany ANY idea of a continum whether deceptively selected or not. Cantor for instance showed mathematically discontinuous motion in a continuous space. And so in the potential understanding of hierarchy in biology where zeros and ones might change by attribution a discrete difference into a continuous variable, we all have failed the history of our own subject. I put all of this effort into the internet because I hope that we will be able on-line to emerge a differnt kind of sample of form made duration biologists than that which is current in the schools.
The footnote I view as crucial in theory is Campbell op. cit. page 202:
quote:
"This statement may not be true. on p. 174 it was noted that it might have been possible to define equal probability by the statement that p1-p2 tends to 0 instead of that p1/p2 tends to one. So far as I can see, if events did occur in that way and were independent (independence being defined as before), they would appear perfectly random. If this view is correct, we must stay that of all the ways in which events actually occur, it is only that characteristic of equal probability as defined which gives a random distribution. But I cannot help thinking that a better logician might prove the view to be mistaken.
The attachment in the debate (as to Provine vs Johnson viewed by Eldredge say) could be
quote:
(3) The last group of objections were mainly raised by the early Mendelian geneticists. They believed that Mendel's discovery, that inheritance is not blending but is controlled by discrete factors which do not mix with and contaminate one another, was fatal to Darwin's theory. Thus H. de Vries, W. Bateson and others followed Mivart in believing that species and higher categories appear as the result of sudden changes, or mutations as they would now be called. However, as already stated in the case of the eye, the production of complex integrated systems at one step is almost impossible, and arguments of this nature make the theory of the production if very different species by such mutations equally unlikely. Consequently, although it was formerly believed that conspicuous mutants or sports are important in evolution, few people still hold to that view. But as the matter has been raised again recently by R.B. Goldschmidt, ^41 the subject will be discussed in more detail in Chapter 12.
Those interested in arguments about the necessity for believing in evolution, and, in particular, evolution by natural selection, should read Darwin’s On the origin of species, and an excellent chapter by R. A. Fisher in Evolution as a process, in which he demolishes most arguments against the theory of natural selection.
P 24 Sheppard Natural Selection and Heredity 1967 London
I realize now that I AM a leading biological theorist. But it has only been because of output here at EVC that I know this. This might indeed be a different aggregation that Gould EVER considered. We need more posters here to find out.
Pascal said, Discerning minds know how much difference there is between two similar remarks, depending upon the place and accompanying circumstances. Will anyone really believe that two persons who have read and learned by heart the same book know it equally well, if one understands it in such a way that he knows all its principles, the force of its conclusions, the replies to the objections that can be made, and the entire organization of the work, whereas in the other book in dead words and seeds which, though the same as those that produced such fertile trees, have remained dry and unfruitful in the sterile mind which received them in vain?
This is how we can not but not why we can not yet perhaps say how much randomness is too much for a designer. What Campbell and we Mendelians do not know is if the Agassiz egg in (a)Mendel number AS A RATIO has the reptile subtracting in the algebraic formulation OR if EVEN IF INFINTE RATIOS APPLY the incidence WILL NOT BE physical surrounded thermodynamically. Monod had insisted ANY inhbition be IN TWO STEPS but with a full rejection of Wolfram this MIGHT BE DONE in Un0. We just need as I said above to be beter versed in continuity sensing.
I know that the mediately above did not "Sound" when read aloud, but I was talking of a reptile or an amphibian and these DO NOT HAVE even the begining emotions of a hamster or a rabbit say. I will talk with you about "dimensions" once I get to a level ^back^ from the social. You will one day be able to notice my progression from molecule to cell to organism to population and around again. That's what makes doing c/e so much fun. I will not directly address the issue of death in the individual (with respect to mitochondria, apoptosis, and topobiology etc) until I have either found a different equilibrium than the one I have already discussed in this thread or someone else gets to it first. And yes I was refering to the Coffee house thread because that was something we could SEE represented visually but this thread DEMONSTRATES that it was not necessary. If there is any thing you learn from my OWN understanding of Gladyshev it would be that in terms of hierarchic views in biology the %visual% presentation that some biologists DO GIVE (which Dawkins for one might deprecate) can be refuted. I do not support R. Dawkins however since I read THE SELFISH GENE and agreed generally say with what Gould said of him. I agree with what Croizat said of Gould however & and that while not bad was not good.
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-30-2004 05:57 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Tony650, posted 08-30-2004 1:04 PM Tony650 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Tony650, posted 09-03-2004 2:04 PM Brad McFall has replied

Snikwad
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 300 (139274)
09-02-2004 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Tony650
08-30-2004 1:06 PM


Re: I am crossed eyes by this time too!
Tony650 writes:
Snikwad, where is the exchange that Brad is referring to? Is it back in this thread, or another one? Just wondering.
The exchange that Brad is referring to is back in this very same thread.
Thanks for the accolade, Snikwad.
It was well deserved. I've been reading EvC for a couple of years now, and I'm well aware that people might view this as "tackling the impossible." Doesn't hurt to try, though.

"Chance is a minor ingredient in the Darwinian recipe, but the most important ingredient is cumulative selection which is quintessentially nonrandom."
--Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Tony650, posted 08-30-2004 1:06 PM Tony650 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Tony650, posted 09-03-2004 2:15 PM Snikwad has not replied

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