Setting the record straight on hunting accidents

They had no dogs.No stamp. No dogs. No cattle, either.All hat.

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I would certainly doubt that any halfway serious quail hunters in Texas would go out without a dog. Where did you hear they had no dogs?
From what I read, the stamp is something new there and they only give warnings for those who don't have them. I also read that Cheney had sent in for a stamp, don't know if that was before or after.

I'll just accept that Cheney drank a whole beer a matter of seconds before being at one end of your line, swept the entire line with his shotgun, intentionally shot his friend sneaking up behind him, left him there for dead while dining with his hunting friends and plotting how to cover it all up. Of course that's what happened. That's why everyone there blames Cheney for being careless and trying to kill them and that's why the lawyer he killed is suing him and attacking his poor hunting skills.
I'm tired of your wild theories that refuse to follow the facts of the story. I guess everyone's wrong because they sure don't agree with your accessment.

You're absolutely right, Murphy.An early report concluded there were no dogs because the guy who got shot went after his own birds.But this report says otherwise: Cheney sent in his $7 for the stamp after the shooting.But even with outriders(!} and a dozen dogs, he's still all hat.

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What is an "American Pointer"?? I've had a couple English Pointers, one out of Oklahoma and one from Texas... both were great dogs but I've not even heard of an 'American'. Is that some new cross or something?Most 'big' hunters are more hat than substance. Personally, I question shooting anything with a 28 gauge, leaves too many cripples. But of course with that many labs, they should clear the field. I wonder why the guy was going after his bird instead of getting a dog to retrieve it. Maybe the dogs were all way ahead with the rest of the group.

Murphy, get ready to be called out on it when you erect straw-men during debates here. I would recommend you not use this tactic when debating on the board.

So 'debate' here is setting up your own parameters and denegrating anyone who doesn't conform to them? I tried to discuss the reasonable situation as it appeared and as I've experienced. Others have brought in information that helped clarify, yet everyone was wrong. For them to be right, he had to be wrong.

I dunno, Murphy, but the same story I quoted about the dogs said the guy who got shot did take a dog with him to look for his birds. If I had a dozen dogs, I wouldn't be chasing my own birds, or I'd get some better dogs.

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Absolutely not Murphy. In fact I believe it is against the forum rules to denigrate your opponent.This is what a straw man argument is. I hope you see why I pointed out your post as an example of it.

Well, other than commiting murder on an oil can with a shotgun at about 10 paces I've never been hunting. I'm learning a lot.It is obvious to me though that you are the person I would go hunting with, Jar, if I was to go. (could we make it just fierce, unpredictable, oil cans though).Murphey sounds a bit dangerous.

Well, Ned, I would be honored to take you hunting anytime. But before we went out we'd spend some time learning what you need to know to stay safe. Guns, shooting and hunting are dangerous. Guns are not toys. Safety has to be the very first and overriding consideration at all times.There are a few rules, not very many at all, not even Ten Commandments, that if you follow them, when you have an ND (Negligent Discharge), and anyone that shoots long enough WILL have an ND, no one gets hurt. The rules are really simple.

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
4. ALWAYS know what is in your line of fire.
5. NEVER point a gun at something you don't plan on shooting.
   

The rest is common sense. Don't mix alcohol and shooting.Frankly, I cannot imagine why Murphy objected to any of my posts. Even Cheney admits it was his fault. He screwed the pooch. He broke just about every one of the rules.Shooting, whether hunting or target practice, in a group or alone, with rifles, shotguns or pistols can be a safe and enjoyable sport. But not unless the participants acknolwedge their responsibility to handle firearms with respect. And when a prominent person like the Vice-President of the US does not follow the rules it reflects baddly on all of us who try very hard to promote firearms safety.To all who read this thread. The NRA has a program called Eddie Eagle designed for kids. It is designed to teach them safety, to teach them to respect the power and danger involved in firearms, to instill an attitude of Safety First. It is designed for both shooters and for the kid who might someday come upon a firearm. The goal is not to recruit new shooters, but to keep everyone, sportmen and bystanders safe. You can find information for parents hereWhether you support hunting, sport shooting, or even gun ownership, or if you are totally opposed guns and firearms, please check out the Eddie Eagle program.Let's keep everyone safe.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ya know, I started this thread to point out a "few" errors in the story given to explain the shooting. The "he didn’t announce his return" nonsense is just that. Listen Murphy, I'm not sure why you are so upset with jar and his assessment of what Cheney did wrong. Honestly, I can't understand it. It's really quite simple in my book. I hunt a lot of different game animals... and one thing I never do is fire my weapon if I do not know where each and every member of my party is located. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? I have passed up numerous shots because I was not sure of what lay beyond my target, or if someone I was hunting with was not with us, or if I felt that taking the shot might be dangerous (weird angle, low target, etc).Here’s something else to consider. The hunting party KNEW that Mr. Whittington had dropped back to recover a downed bird. There's absolutely no way Cheney, or anyone else in the group, should have pulled the trigger till they knew where the hell he was. Think about it...Cheney most certainly should have known that Mr. Whittington was behind him...that's where the friggen left him. Why then, did he follow the bird and shot in that direction? So, as jar has pointed out, Mr. Cheney broke a number of "rules" that resulted in this accident.As far as I know, no one here is claiming that Cheney shot him on purpose...we're just saying that if Cheney had followed some basic rules of proper hunting, this whole mess would have been avoided.And I won’t even mention that alcohol, stuff. Wait . yes I will. You never mix the two . never. I have never had a drink on the same day that I was going to hunting. No one I have hunted with has ever (at least not in my presence or that I was made aware of) had a drink on the same day that we were going to go hunting. It’s just a stupid and dangerous thing to do, so quit trying to justify it.As for you ridiculous claim that if Bill Clinton had done this, it wouldn't have been an issue. Get real. The Republicans and the press would have hung him from a cherry tree down by the Potomac...and you know it. How short the Republican memory can be when it comes to the crap they put Clinton through (not that he didn't deserve much of it). But to claim that this poor administration is treated much more harshly than was Clinton's is a complete joke (and also off topic).

I have stated that Cheney is responsible for his actions. However, for all the things that he has been accused of to be true, the police report must be false, all the hunting companions must be wrong and the guy who got shot must be wrong.
I'm looking at this through the perspective of what happens in the field, not from a textbook theory. I've never liked to hunt in large groups exactly for the possibility of someone getting 'lost'. That doesn't mean that I'm in favor of being dangerous with any gun.
It does mean that I don't like to hang a person one doesn't like by made up 'evidence'.

"Here’s something else to consider. The hunting party KNEW that Mr. Whittington had dropped back to recover a downed bird. There's absolutely no way Cheney, or anyone else in the group, should have pulled the trigger till they knew where the hell he was. Think about it...Cheney most certainly should have known that Mr. Whittington was behind him...that's where the friggen left him. Why then, did he follow the bird and shot in that direction? So, as jar has pointed out, Mr. Cheney broke a number of "rules" that resulted in this accident."Sounds like you haven't read the police report either. The guy went back to the vehicle about 100 yards away from the located covey. Then he decided to go to where they were. He should have announced that he was coming up behind them. In rolling terrain, 100 yards could be over a couple of rises, completely out of shotgun range and sight.
Again, people are 'hanging' Cheney because they don't like him and doing so on 'evidence' that isn't consistent with the members of the hunting party's statements.

"And it's not Harry's fault. Ultimately, I'm the guy that pulled the trigger and shot my friend." - Dick Cheney.