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Author Topic:   Just What is (and what is wrong with) Political Correctness?
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 286 of 302 (342696)
08-23-2006 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Modulous
08-23-2006 7:59 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
quote:
yet I despise femi-nazis
You do realize that Rush Limbaugh coined that term to demonize all supporters of equality for women, don't you?
And who are these "feminazis" you refer to, anyway?
More importantly, are they in any sort of influential or powerful position?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Modulous, posted 08-23-2006 7:59 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Modulous, posted 08-23-2006 9:41 AM nator has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 287 of 302 (342698)
08-23-2006 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by nator
08-23-2006 9:29 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
You do realize that Rush Limbaugh coined that term to demonize all supporters of equality for women, don't you?
Lots of phrases were coined for one reason only to be adopted for another sometimes contradictory reason.
And who are these "feminazis" you refer to, anyway?
feminazis refer to those who would have women as superior to men, not equal. Also, the lesser feminazis are those who impose their view on others due to a perceived threat to their gender.
More importantly, are they in any sort of influential or powerful position?
Why is that important to my point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by nator, posted 08-23-2006 9:29 AM nator has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 288 of 302 (342705)
08-23-2006 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by ikabod
08-23-2006 3:51 AM


ikabod writes:
wow you nhave a very centric world view
I don't have a "world view".
so people can call you anything and it does not demean you ...IN WHOS EYES ...
That's just the point. I can only be demeaned in my eyes.
culturally the german people get demeaned by certain UK news papers every time england play germany at football ...
What does that have to do with demeaning me?
the whole cutural group is affected ..
FYI, "German" is not a monolithic "cultural group".
and btw im sure a french man could tell you a few demeaning terms for germans , as could a polish , russian et al .
You are seriously missing my point. The terms are only demeaning if the recipient feels demeaned. Some Germans may feel demeaned because of their background. As a Canadian of German extraction, I do not feel demeaned. It is not possible to demean me by refering to somebody else's background.
If I call somebody a "n****r", there is nothing he can do to me that is even remotely similar.
hmm how about nazis ??? a hitler .. happy to have such names sprayed on your car ?? to have swastika's painted on you house ...
Did you read my post at all? For all you know, I could be Jewish.
Why on earth would Nazi symbols demean me?

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 289 of 302 (342707)
08-23-2006 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by ikabod
08-23-2006 4:14 AM


ikabod writes:
A date of departure is meaning less .... if you say you are of german ethic group
On the contrary, if my ancestors left Germany before Nazis were even thought of, Nazi epithets would be meaningless to us.
by what measure are you a Jew ...
Irrelevant. If I was a German Jew, Nazi epithets would not be demeaning to me.
firstly the nazi party does not allow jews to join it ..
You quoted my post - try reading it. I said, "Pick ONE."
I could be a Jew OR a Nazi. In either case, Nazi epithets would not demean me.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by ikabod, posted 08-23-2006 4:14 AM ikabod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by ikabod, posted 08-23-2006 10:24 AM ringo has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 290 of 302 (342709)
08-23-2006 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by nator
08-23-2006 12:04 AM


Your reply is a perfect example of what I am talking about Schraf.
If the students had been asked to illustrate "Man: His First Two Million Years" I imagine the pictures would have been all over the place. There Man is gender neutral. To say that the use of the term man in "Industrial Man" is the same as "Man: His First Two Million Years" while not exactly dishonest is certainly downright silly.
Context is everything Schraf. Only a fool or an idiot would say "Industrial Man" when refering to "Idustrial Society", at least after say 1890 or so.
But hey, if it makes you happy to smugly handwave away perfectly sound science without deigning to explain yourself when asked, nor bothering to address most of what I say, then go to it.
But hey, if it makes you happy to call a joke of a study science, then go for it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by nator, posted 08-23-2006 12:04 AM nator has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 291 of 302 (342712)
08-23-2006 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
08-23-2006 8:14 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
Creationists have an alternative only it's not worked out in the specifics.
When I say 'little details', I refer to the specifics.
I don't remember Lind saying homosexuals are good in PC land.
Its more extreme than that. According to Lind they are good because they are homosexual, regardless of what they do.
Lind writes:
Third, just as in classical economic Marxism certain groups, i.e. workers and peasants, are a priori good, and other groups, i.e., the bourgeoisie and capital owners, are evil. In the cultural Marxism of Political Correctness certain groups are good - feminist women, (only feminist women, non-feminist women are deemed not to exist) blacks, Hispanics, homosexuals. These groups are determined to be "victims," and therefore automatically good regardless of what any of them do. Similarly, white males are determined automatically to be evil, thereby becoming the equivalent of the bourgeoisie in economic Marxism.
Another golden part is
Lind writes:
So we find, for example, that all of Shakespeare is about the suppression of women, or the Bible is really about race and gender.
I've never seen anyone describe the entire works of Shakespeare to be about the suppression of women, and I have never seen anyone say the Bible is really all about race and gender...though I can imagine a Klan member saying it.
If this is truly what you think PC is all about, one of us must be massively deluded. I might be forced to wear a rubber suit to make sure the PC/Marxist/Commies don't invade my bodily fluids.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 08-23-2006 8:14 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by robinrohan, posted 08-23-2006 10:30 AM Modulous has replied

ikabod
Member (Idle past 4493 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 292 of 302 (342716)
08-23-2006 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 289 by ringo
08-23-2006 10:07 AM


ok i guess you are able to shut out the rest of humanity and what picture it paints of you ,
and you are ok with being excluded from society by the action of others ,
im glad you have found a path that works for you .... but what you must realise is other people are affected differently ....not everyone can grow a thick shell like you , and some perfer the option of being able to join in and share in lifes experences ...
being isolated and demean by ones fellow citizens is not a nice place to be ,and when the reasons is ethnic it has no justification ... and we all know where it leads .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by ringo, posted 08-23-2006 10:07 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by ringo, posted 08-23-2006 10:40 AM ikabod has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 293 of 302 (342717)
08-23-2006 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by Modulous
08-23-2006 10:22 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
I've never seen anyone describe the entire works of Shakespeare to be about the suppression of women
There is much of this sort of thing in the literary criticism of the last 20 years or so. The literary work is treated as a social artifact that reveals the prejudices of its day. Shakespeare's time was extremely sexist and racist, and this is revealed in his works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Modulous, posted 08-23-2006 10:22 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by robinrohan, posted 08-23-2006 10:35 AM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 295 by Modulous, posted 08-23-2006 10:40 AM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 294 of 302 (342720)
08-23-2006 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 293 by robinrohan
08-23-2006 10:30 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
Shakespeare's time was extremely sexist and racist, and this is revealed in his works.
There's also a line of thought called "Queer Theory." The purpose of this type of analysis is to reveal the homophobia in any given work.
Everybody has their own agenda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by robinrohan, posted 08-23-2006 10:30 AM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-23-2006 10:49 AM robinrohan has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 295 of 302 (342721)
08-23-2006 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 293 by robinrohan
08-23-2006 10:30 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
There is much of this sort of thing in the literary criticism of the last 20 years or so. The literary work is treated as a social artifact that reveals the prejudices of its day. Shakespeare's time was extremely sexist and racist, and this is revealed in his works.
I am aware of that - but I have never seen anybody say that 'all of Shakespeare is about the suppression of women'. Those themes are present, but they are not the only themes. One can dedicate an entire book to the insights gained about Shakespeare's society gleaned from his writings but likewise you can dedicate books to Shakespeare that don't mention it at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by robinrohan, posted 08-23-2006 10:30 AM robinrohan has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 296 of 302 (342722)
08-23-2006 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by ikabod
08-23-2006 10:24 AM


ikabod writes:
i guess you are able to shut out the rest of humanity and what picture it paints of you....
But it isn't painting a picture of me at all.
... and you are ok with being excluded from society by the action of others....
How am I being "excluded"?
... some perfer the option of being able to join in and share in lifes experences ...
What the hell are you talking about?
I'm saying that ethnic "slurs" don't effect me, that I am not "excluded".
being isolated and demean by ones fellow citizens is not a nice place to be ,and when the reasons is ethnic it has no justification ...
Of course. What I'm saying is that there has to be a cultural background for the demeaning to work.
If your slave grandmother was called a "n****r", then you won't like being called a "n****r". I don't pretend to understand why, but slave descendents feel demeaned by it.
If my grandfather was Jewish, calling me a "Nazi" doesn't demean me.
It just makes the name-caller an idiot.

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This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 297 of 302 (342723)
08-23-2006 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Omnivorous
08-23-2006 8:54 AM


Re: Intellectual freedom meets resistance from lefties
What were you saying in the all-USA-all-the-time 1950s that led to your intellectual freedom being compromised by a left wing high school teacher? I'm fascinated.
The teacher was enormously popular. He flattered us all, told us we were so smart (it was an "accelerated" class for the best and brightest) he didn't need to spend much time teaching us geometry, so he could prattle on in his comedy routine most of the time. He preached against McCarthyism and he preached against religion (all those idiots who expected to get "a loge seat in heaven"). We idolized him.
{Edit: His name was Mr. Crawford and my best friend and I, drunk on "Brave New World" dubbed him "Our CrawFord."}
Sorry I misunderstood that you were asking me to produce the right wing stuff from Horowitz. I'll check later.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Omnivorous, posted 08-23-2006 8:54 AM Omnivorous has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 298 of 302 (342726)
08-23-2006 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by robinrohan
08-23-2006 10:35 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
There is much of this sort of thing in the literary criticism of the last 20 years or so. The literary work is treated as a social artifact that reveals the prejudices of its day. Shakespeare's time was extremely sexist and racist, and this is revealed in his works.
There's also a line of thought called "Queer Theory." The purpose of this type of analysis is to reveal the homophobia in any given work.
Everybody has their own agenda.
Sure, but agendas are less obvious when people have actually read Shakespeare criticism. The main discussion of homosexuality that goes on in that context suggests that certain characters are intended to be gay, but characters with whom one can sympathize... like Antonio in Merchant of Venice. And the idea wildly predates any formalized Queer Theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by robinrohan, posted 08-23-2006 10:35 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by robinrohan, posted 08-23-2006 10:56 AM Dan Carroll has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 299 of 302 (342729)
08-23-2006 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Dan Carroll
08-23-2006 10:49 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
And the idea wildly predates any formalized Queer Theory.
Maybe so. I'm just saying that this field of academics is heavily oriented toward PC concerns.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-23-2006 10:49 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-23-2006 11:07 AM robinrohan has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 300 of 302 (342731)
08-23-2006 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by robinrohan
08-23-2006 10:56 AM


Re: Don't criticize without an alternative!
Maybe so. I'm just saying that this field of academics is heavily oriented toward PC concerns.
And I'm just saying that your post reveals your total lack of knowledge on this field.
I mean honestly... Queer Theory says that Shakespeare was homophobic? You just couldn't have picked a worse example if you tried.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by robinrohan, posted 08-23-2006 10:56 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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