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Author Topic:   Good drugs, bad drugs, legal drugs, illegal drugs
Riley
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 115 (97405)
04-03-2004 1:03 AM


Intoxication is a human trait.
"The most curious case is that of small tribes, which, having neither fruit nor cereals nor milk at their disposal have, nevertheless, managed to produce an intoxicating beverage from the tubers of cassava or sweet potatoes. As it is not possible to render starch fermentable by germination, the problem had to be solved by the use of digestive ferments, by salivary ptyalin. The raw roots...are chewed and insalivated by the women of the tribe, who then spit it out into a tub, leaving the atmosphere to take care of transforming starch, saccharified by this process which to us appears repugnant, into alcohol.
"So, if the abuse of fermented beverages is blameworthy, their use does seem to be an instinctive need peculiar to mankind, which strict legislation may restrain, but has never yet managed to eliminate for any length of time. "
-Larousse Gastronomique, "Fermented Beverages"
I'd say holmes won that argument hands down. If anything, my own response would be less measured. I think the risk of opiates is generally misunderstood, having retained a Harry Anslinger-Reefer Madness'one hit and you're hooked, two hits and you're dead" aura for 70 years. The fact is that a large percentage of heroin users manage their use for years, the greatest risks being purity and the lack of attention to general health which overtakes immoderate users.
A reasonable approach to legalization would a) reduce the demand for more dangerous attractions and b) remove the health risks associated with uncontrolled production. Amphetamines, alcohol, nicotine and cocaine are the only drugs more dangerous than eating at McDonald's on a regular basis.

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 17 of 115 (124598)
07-15-2004 12:59 AM


Bump for jar
The need for this topic has come up in another topic.
Moose

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 18 of 115 (124601)
07-15-2004 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Minnemooseus
07-15-2004 12:59 AM


Re: Bump for jar
Thanks.
If anyone wants to return to the discusssion of drug policy this would be a better place.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 19 of 115 (124606)
07-15-2004 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
07-15-2004 1:06 AM


Re: Bump for jar
I see certain substances as being the same as alcohol. If you legalize them, you can at least regulate them and increase their qualities. By qualities, I mean their harmful effects on the users. By regulation, I mean you can make people pay for abusing them, like alcohol.
Making something illegal will only drive it underground. I thought the government learned this lesson the hard way during prohibition. Well, I guess people aren't as smart as my younger self hoped.

The Laminator

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Trae
Member (Idle past 4306 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


Message 20 of 115 (127264)
07-24-2004 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Riley
04-03-2004 1:03 AM


quote:
Intoxication is a human trait.
I know there’s something buzzing my brain about some animal making and drinking something fermented. Ring a bell with anyone?
Same goes with animals using drugs. I’m certain I’ve heard of the use of drugs by animals other than Cats and Catnip.
Same with koalas and eucalyptus, though the drug in eucalyptus might not effect koalas.
Hrrmmm. Does some research.
Seems many people report a variety of birds eating fermented fruits and or berries and flying erratically afterwards.
I have heard that arfican elephants will eat a "rotten" fruit which contains alcohol....sorry, no ref. though. Tim LISTSERV 15.5 - Archives - Error
Sorry, no reference, but I have heard of birds and bears eating fermented fruit and berries. I saw something about it in a nature show, but it was years ago. Tanya LISTSERV 15.5 - Archives - Error
Kahvah by goats.
That they eat the material, if they do, doesn’t presume that they do so to get high. In the case of alcohol, they may be doing it to gain access to the high calories.

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bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 21 of 115 (127560)
07-25-2004 9:38 PM


marijuana vs. alcohol as related to the Euro Cup
It is interesting to note that
"Portuguese police officers will turn a blind eye to England supporters who openly smoke cannabis during Euro 2004, having decided that a stoned crowd is easier to control than a drunk one."
It's OK to smoke dope, England fans told | UK news | The Guardian
It turns out that during Euro 2004 the matches that were held in dope smoking Netherlads were less violent than those held in prohibitionist Belgium. Apparently when people drink they are more violent than when they smoke marijuana. Who knew? This is just one of many reasons why the War on Drugs is counter productive.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 115 (127579)
07-25-2004 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by bob_gray
07-25-2004 9:38 PM


Apparently when people drink they are more violent than when they smoke marijuana. Who knew?
Anybody who's ever been a college student?

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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 115 (127582)
07-25-2004 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by bob_gray
07-25-2004 9:38 PM


Re: marijuana vs. alcohol as related to the Euro Cup
Bill Hicks can't come up enough in these discussions:
I have never seen two people on pot get in a fight because it is fucking IMPOSSIBLE.
"Hey, buddy!"
"Hey, what?"
"Ummmmmmm...."
End of fuckin' argument.

"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 115 (127653)
07-26-2004 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
07-25-2003 3:40 PM


quote:
I heard (from a friend of mine who used to be into drugs) that sex under E was a bad idea... something like having an orgasm on E will ruin non-drug sex for you, forever. Or it lesions the pleasure center of your brain or something.
Hmm, I doubt that myself, I know a happy couple who used it fairly frequently without any concerns. I find it is a bit, umm, distracting and you cannot perhaps get as excited as you otherwise might.

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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 115 (127654)
07-26-2004 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Trae
07-24-2004 5:05 AM


quote:
I know there’s something buzzing my brain about some animal making and drinking something fermented. Ring a bell with anyone?
African elephants eat over-ripe maringa fruit so that they will ferment in their bellies. Drunk elephants are not safe to be around.
Baboons also know about the maringa fruit, but they let them ferment on the ground, and then get hammered.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 26 of 115 (127736)
07-26-2004 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by contracycle
07-26-2004 5:05 AM


I thought it was called the marula fruit?

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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 115 (127740)
07-26-2004 10:42 AM



  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 115 (127806)
07-26-2004 1:43 PM


As to opiates and cocaine, the health drawbacks are apparent, as well as the opportunity to become addicted. I hate to admit it, but I support the prohibition of these products for the preservatin of public health.
However, E and pot are inherently non-addictive. People do become dependent on these drugs, but only to help cope with their lives, not to quench a physical addiction. As far as gateway drugs, if you do a survey of heroine and cocaine users you will probably find that close to 99% abused or used alcohol at some point. Alcohol is the real gateway drug.
For pot, I think a short term fix would be to legalize the smoking of marijuana on your own property, and legalize the growing of marijuana on your own property. The government would be in control of the seed (they have the best shit anyway). However, it would still be illegal to buy or sell marijuana. This wouldn't stop sharing, but it would stop pushers selling to minors and supporting "terrorism" through the sale of narcotics. Also, marijuana use would not have an impact on people's financial responsibilities. "Fight Terrorism, Grow Your Own" should be the new slogan from the Drug Czar's office. Or how about "Just Say Grow". Anyway, for those who have smoked or been around those that smoke, marijuana is just not the evil weed that it is made out to be. Yes, it can be a detriment to some peoples lives, but it is not the drug that is driving them, but rather a self imposed numbness that they require to ignore their responsibilities. For others, it's a nice relaxing afternoon in front of the TV.

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 29 of 115 (597776)
12-23-2010 10:41 PM


Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson favors marijuana legalization

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 30 of 115 (597783)
12-24-2010 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Minnemooseus
12-23-2010 10:41 PM


Re: Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson favors marijuana legalization
"decriminalization" not "legalization".

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