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Author Topic:   Media and Religion today
BMG
Member (Idle past 227 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 46 of 63 (339815)
08-13-2006 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hyroglyphx
08-13-2006 1:56 PM


Re: Media hounds
You do realize networks compete against each other for ratings, right? If there was one network there wouldn't be any competition. It doesn't mean that they couldn't be regulated.
How does the lack of competition provide for more accurate, reputable, and reliable information?
It may be wishful thinking but that doesn't mean we have to just give up. There will continue to be evil acts in the world too, despite our best efforts, but that doesn't mean we just give up and make matters worse by not trying to alleviate those problems?
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to get at.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-13-2006 1:56 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5695 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 47 of 63 (339821)
08-13-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Theus
08-13-2006 11:05 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
I would venture to say there were many Nazis that were indeed very good people on the inside. Oscar Schindler being an example. Instead of a political party running 1 country (Germany) just before WWII, its a religion that exists in almost every country. Now muslims disagree on alot of things in their religion. That's why you have Shia and Sunni, who like to kill each other. But there's 1 thing that unites the entire religion: Fighting against Israel.
Again, we aren't there yet. But that's where we are headed.
Edited by Tal, : No reason given.

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Theus, posted 08-13-2006 11:05 AM Theus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Theus, posted 08-13-2006 9:21 PM Tal has replied
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 08-15-2006 11:07 PM Tal has not replied

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6372 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 48 of 63 (339839)
08-13-2006 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Chiroptera
08-13-2006 9:16 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
quote:
Keep in mind this is the country that sent thier children to the Iriania Egnineers in the Iran/Iraq war with gold keys tied around their necks. Then the engineers sent these children into minefields. The gold key was the key to paradise, so who cares if they blow up?
Actually, I have been having trouble verifying this, too.
Tal made this claim in another thread.
I couldn't find anything to back up his version. However if you look for plastic keys rather than gold ones you can find loads of references such as this one from The New Republic.
Although I could can find lots of reports I can't find anything to actually verify the story that 'human waves' of children were used to clear minefields - there are references to an unamed 'East European reporter' who saw it but that's about it.
The link I put in takes you to a page where you have to be a subscriber to read the whole article, but if you put "Ahmadinejad's Demons" into Google the first hit will take you to the whole article directly.

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 63 (339846)
08-13-2006 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by MangyTiger
08-13-2006 4:06 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
Thanks, Tiger.
For some reason, I don't seem to be able to get the hang of Google. I really seem to have a hard time using it to find anything useful.
The article was written by Matthias Kntzel, who is a member of the Scholars for Peace in the Middle East which, along with The New Repbulic, appear to be apologists for Israel policy.
On the other hand, Kntzel also appears to be a legitimate academic.
At any rate, I also am having a difficult time getting information about these "children" being used as human mine clearers beyond people just saying that it happened. It is possible, I guess -- it would be consistent with Iran "human wave" tactics against Iraqi positions. Still, calling teen-agers "children" seems...odd to me. The obvious appeal to emotion along with that these claims seem to be confined to pro-Israel policy sites leads me to maintain at least some doubt.

"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5695 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 50 of 63 (339884)
08-13-2006 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Chiroptera
08-13-2006 4:47 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
You seem to be missing the forest for all the trees. Take a step back. This is common practice. Palestinians send thier kids to blow themselves up rather regularly with the promise of 72 virgins and lots of money for each Jew that they kill. That money used to come from Saddam, but the US and GBR took care of that. The point here is to explain why this female would blow up her 6 month old baby on the planes leaving GBR last week. I know I couldn't hurt my kids, but these people don't care because their children will be going to paradise. If they strap C-4 around thier kids today, does it take that big of a logical leap to think they would do it to clear mines a couple of decades ago?
Again, what a baby is going to do with 72 virgins is beyond me.

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-14-2006 9:55 AM Tal has replied

  
Theus
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 63 (339885)
08-13-2006 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Tal
08-13-2006 2:55 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
A) Members of the Muslim religion should not be compared to Nazi's (though that's in vogue), and
B) There are many Palestinians and Israeli Arabs who don't want to see Israel destroyed, thus not uniting the WHOLE religion.
Where is your evidence for this war that's coming? Or is this another baseless conservative claim such as WMDs? I, and hopefully a few others, will not give you the benefit of the doubt on such a white-washing claim against followers of Islam.
Au revoir,
Theus

‘ ‘ — — ‘

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 2:55 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 11:08 PM Theus has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5695 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 52 of 63 (339900)
08-13-2006 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Theus
08-13-2006 9:21 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
A) Germans had values like any other society. After Hitler came into power the populace was desensitized by indoctrinating them and their children.
Hitler Youth
Hezbos Youth
Hamas Youth
B)What do you base this assessment on? The Palestinians teach their kids hate.
No webpage found at provided URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH4UuWFk5Sg&mode=related&search=
Page not found - WND
The documentary also juxtaposes the children's programming with television news reporting, in which the news anchor - reflecting the same message the children are receiving -describes Palestinians as "noble, courageous" fighters, while describing Israel as "mean, fascist, racist, genocidal" and "Nazis."
Other "highlights" of the "Children's Club":
*
Groups of children are gathered together, shouting for "Jihad against Israel."
*
One girl, who appears to be in a Palestinian school classroom, sings of donning "battledress" to "attack the Zionists."
*
A small girl chants the now-familiar ditty, "When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber."
*
An adult narrator reads material in a Palestinian school pamphlet: "I have raised my children for jihad and on the principle that they never give up on their land."
*
One segment depicts a small boy on the street chanting, "Revolution until victory."
*
Another boy is shown in class proclaiming, "We will settle our claims with stones and bullets."
Palestinian Textbooks Teach Anti-Israel Hate | CAMERA
What do the Palestinian schools teach? Ninth-graders study from official textbooks that assert, "treachery and disloyalty are character traits of the Jews and therefore one should beware of them." Jews are cast as Satanic, violent and cunning, as "thieving conquerors" who have stolen Arab land and must be fought and defeated.
Jihad and martyrdom are glorified as the means to liberating "Palestine" and children's poems contain calls to war and bloodletting. Fifth graders memorize such lines as, "I shall take my soul in my hand and hurl it into the abyss of death." The same verses are recited by children on official Palestinian television. Sixth-graders read of a young boy growing up with "the love of Jihad flowing through his veins and filling every fiber of his being." "Joy" comes only at "the sight of the enemy lying dead" or "fleeing for their lives."
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part11.html
So on and so forth. This is what they teach thier children. Now I would like you to show me examples of Palestinians that want to live in harmony with Israel.

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 63 (339966)
08-14-2006 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Tal
08-13-2006 9:03 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
Again, what a baby is going to do with 72 virgins is beyond me.
According to philologists and critics, the actual translation is 'raisins,' not virgins. They will recieve 72 white raisins according to the Qur'an.
http://www.rense.com/general45/islamafter.htm

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

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 Message 50 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 9:03 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Tal, posted 08-15-2006 9:07 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 56 by Nighttrain, posted 08-16-2006 12:41 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5695 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 54 of 63 (340401)
08-15-2006 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Hyroglyphx
08-14-2006 9:55 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
I heard it translated "72 white flowers" from a native of Baghdad. I hope Satan has a dozen white roses for them when they get to hell.

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-14-2006 9:55 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 55 of 63 (340414)
08-15-2006 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Tal
08-13-2006 2:55 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
But there's 1 thing that unites the entire religion: Fighting against Israel.
Of course, even with all that strife, there's one thing that unites Jews, Christians, and Muslims: hating gays.
Rabbi: ‘Holy Land, not Homo Land’
quote:
The international gay pride parade is set to take place in Jerusalem next month, much to the ire of groups that had, up until now, little to unite them.
Orthodox Jews, Moslems and Christians have banded together to try to prevent this convergence of gays and lesbians from all over the world for a week of activities in Israel’s capital.
Believers in Jerusalem have held several citywide prayer meetings regarding the parade, while rabbis and Moslem sheikhs held a mutual news conference decrying the event, including Levin and Arab party Knesset Member Ibrahim Sarsur. At least 45 parliament members signed a petition against the parade.
“This is the holy land, not the homo land,” Rabbi Yehuda Levin, a moral activist from America, who came to Israel to stir a charge against the parade, told Israel Today. “The militants are as dangerous as Hamas. And they’re every bit as dangerous as Nazis to religious people.”
And, hey, if you read the comments, you can see Tal's buddies expressing their solidarity with their Jihadist brethren on this issue.
I don't see any fundamental problem with the facts as Tal is presenting them, at least in part. It's absolutely true that jihadist groups are indoctrinating children to hate and to kill. Of course, his implication that it's just Muslim jhadists that are doing it is absolutely false:
Seriously, though. "Not the homo land." That gets me every time. It would be absolutely freakin' hilarious if not for the fact that, as an atheist who can see no moral problem with homosexuality, all three of these convergent religions are equally adamant that I be "turned or burned", as I think they put it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 2:55 PM Tal has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4012 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 56 of 63 (340421)
08-16-2006 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Hyroglyphx
08-14-2006 9:55 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
According to philologists and critics, the actual translation is 'raisins,' not virgins. They will recieve 72 white raisins according to the Qur'an.
Load of old cobbler`s if you read the rebuttal on the same page of that link

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-14-2006 9:55 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3444 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 57 of 63 (340423)
08-16-2006 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Tal
08-13-2006 11:08 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
For a little perspective...

Israeli kids signing missiles headed into Lebanon
Sabbah's blog
You can find one of the images from the blog on JPost
From an article concerning Christian teen Battlecry events
Christian Post - also from Battlecry
Found this image in a search and forgot to copy the address and I don't feel like finding it. Just do an image search on JROTC to find the link and more images of kids being militarized

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 11:08 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Tal, posted 08-22-2006 10:07 AM Jaderis has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5695 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 58 of 63 (342333)
08-22-2006 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Jaderis
08-16-2006 1:26 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
For a little perspective...
No webpage found at provided URL: https://www.youtube.com/v/-HlaVpqUXF0

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 63 (342413)
08-22-2006 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Tal
08-15-2006 9:07 PM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
quote:
I hope Satan has a dozen white roses for them when they get to hell.
What do you hope that Satan has for you when you arrive?

"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Tal, posted 08-15-2006 9:07 PM Tal has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18292
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 63 (342784)
08-23-2006 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theus
08-04-2006 10:41 PM


The medium is the message
Theus writes:
As far as I'm concerned CNN and Fox News are the worst dangers to that region (and ours) because they give a voice to the extreme elements of any conflict and isolate (and thus discourage) the more moderate majority.
I would like to know what others think, because I think more than any one war or one political controversy this is a problem that needs to be addressed. If our "eyes" for the rest of the world are so jaded and nearsighted, we have the obligation to do our best to change it, but only if everyone sees the same problem.
The media is big business.
It is an inescapable part of modern society.
Communication is evolving in the information age that we now live in, however.
Sharing your story with us made more of an impact on me than either CNN or Fox has been able to do in their reports on the current Lebanese conflict.
Thanks!

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 Message 1 by Theus, posted 08-04-2006 10:41 PM Theus has not replied

  
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