Iraq Assessment

Sadr's freeze order has helped overall in Iraq for sure. However JAM Special Groups are basically Warlords over certain areas. They get thier funding, training, and logistical support from Iran. Since they don't directly answer to Sadr there is no real reason for them to stop exerting their power (by attacking CF). Some muscle has been flexed by JAM Golden Brigade (JAM SF equivalent) on some of the SG leaders, but the SG's are still capable of carrying out attacks. JAM SG are now a criminal element as they no longer follow Sadr in deed. They are THE problem in Baghdad. I'm not sure I really understand this question, but I'll try to answer it. AQI doesn't stay quiet and they don't take vacations unless they are forced to because of aggressive CF targeting. Thier agenda is to blow up as many Iraqi nationals as possible, as well as stir sectarian violence, e.g. golden mosque bombing. AQI's downfall was due to thier brutality. We would find bodies in the streets that had the most evil things done to them that you can imagine. After we moved into the Combat Outposts throughout Baghdad, they made the mistake of taking a 7 year old girl out into the middle of the street and cutting her head off in broad daylight. That little girl was a Shia Shiek's daughter. The people simply got tired of AQI's brutality and starting giving us tips on their locations and identities. It also helped that a CF COP or JSS (Joint Security Station) was just around the corner if they needed it.They still aren't quiet now, but all of their leadership has been killed, captured, or they've fled. They have a hard time getting supplied with the proper items needed to make effective IEDs. And we've killed their first and second string IED and EJK (Extra Judicial Killings aka Murders) cells, so the guys planting IEDs aren't very well trained and don't have experience.Edited by Tal, : grammerEdited by Tal, : No reason given.

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We never seem to acknowledge that we have been wrong in the past, and so might be wrong in the future. Instead, each generation writes off earlier errors as the result of bad thinking by less able minds-and then confidently embarks on fresh errors of its own. --Michael Crichton

From what I heard of the arguments against a time table was that AQ would simply wait for the US to leave and then once we left, let all hell break loose. Therefore, couldn't we just say we were leaving on day X but lie and then use that time of peace to quickly solidify gains?What's the size of the JAMs compared to the Mahdi Army?

Tal, are you going to actually provide any evidence or are you going to simply spout snarky comments?Where is the evidence that AQI had any connection to Al Qaeda? That al-Zarqawi pledged allegiance to Al Qaeda is not sufficient. You need to show that Al Qaeda returned the favor. Otherwise, he was just a wannabe.Where is the evidence that AQI was any threat to the US? All the sources we've both provided have directly stated they weren't.And if the situation in Iraq is better, why was 2007 the worst year for deaths? 899 US Soldiers died this year, the worst ever. Iraqi civilian deaths were up, too, to 18,610 from 13,813 last year.When this was the worst year ever, how does that make things "going well"?Yeah, yeah...we all know...you've seen the reports, but you can't tell us about them. We believe that, you know. We really do.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Nemesis Juggernaut responds to me:

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Al Qaeda in Iraq has always been a significant problem.

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Incorrect. Al Qaeda in Iraq has been a nuisance regarding our actions in Iraq. They have no connection to Al Qaeda, have no designs upon the US other than to get us out of Iraq, and became the scapegoat for every single attack. The group did not exist until we showed up and has no ties to terrorism.

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There are plenty of Saddam and Ba'ath loyalists who still exist.

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I never said they didn't. The question is why the Bush Administration and Tal and now you are trying to pass off AQI as some sort of grand threat to the US. Remember, "We have to fight them over there so that we don't fight them over here," right? As if AQI had any plans on the US. Where is your evidence that they are tied to terrorism?

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If you were the president, what would you do to solve the Iraq issue? Would you pull out immediately, would you withdraw slowly, would you stay to stabilize the country?

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Um, if I were the president, I wouldn't have invaded in the first place. But if I had inherited the complete disaster, I would start engaging in diplomacy to get the international community involved. The country is in the middle of a civil war. There is no reason for our Soldiers to be their targets. The country is probably going to split up into three and Turkey needs to get over it (again, there's that diplomacy thing).

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Its a warzone, not a stripmall -- arguably the least destructive war.

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You're missing the point: The Bush administration is LYING about the situation in Iraq and Tal is buying it. They are claiming that things are getting better when, in fact, things are much worse.He (and apparently you) are the type of person to whine about how we "never hear any good news from Iraq" when there really isn't that much good news to report. "Where are the reports of the schools we built?" They aren't there because the reporters were begged by the teachers not to divulge the fact that a school was built because if it gets out, then it becomes a target and gets blown up. That is not progress.

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But it appears the Surge has worked.

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How? All it did was move things to other parts of the country. We're playing whack-a-mole. The entire point behind the surge was to provide an environment for the Iraqi government to meet its benchmarks......which they summarily failed to do. So just like everything else the Bush administration has done with regard to Iraq, they retroactively changed the justification for it. Except that turned out to be a collosal failure, too.

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because AQ doesn't give a rats ass.

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What does Al Qaeda have to do with anything? They're not in Iraq. You've fallen for the propaganda, NJ. Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism. They're in the middle of a civil war that we started. We won't be able to stop it until we get the diplomats in...which the Bushies will never do.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

obvious Child writes:

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My question is why didn't the US just make up some reason that would make AQ stay quiet for a while

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Because Al Qaeda has nothing to do with Iraq.Because the entire premise behind the Bush administration's approach to Iraq is that we can't leave because the terrorists (of which there aren't any in Iraq) will just wait for us to leave and then "follow us home!" (as if they can't find the US on a map and never considered the fact that NOW would be the perfect time to come and attack because all of our troops and materiel are in Iraq). To suddenly shift course would be to be shown "weak" and "caving into the defeat-o-crats."

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

There's already enough information in my previous posts that people can make up for their own minds about AQI.But I can continue to color by number it for you. Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia[qs]Claims as to the location of Osama bin Laden have been made since December 2001, although none have been definitively proven and some have placed Osama in different locations during overlapping time periods.A 11 December 2005, letter from Atiyah Abd al-Rahman to [b]Abu Musab al-Zarqawi[/]b indicates that bin Laden and the al-Qaeda leadership were based in the Waziristan region of Pakistan at the time. In the letter, translated by the military's Combating Terrorism Center at West Point, "Atiyah" instructs Zarqawi to "send messengers from your end to Waziristan so that they meet with the brothers of the leadership . I am now on a visit to them and I am writing you this letter as I am with them . " Al-Rahman also indicates that bin Laden and al-Qaeda are "weak" and "have many of their own problems." The letter has been deemed authentic by military and counterterrorism officials, according to the Washington Post. [/qs]Atiyah Abd al-Rahman is a senior Al Qaeda leader who was appointed by Bin Laden, met with Bin Laden while in his teens, and fled the Republic of Congo with Bin Laden back in 2001.I guess you won't be happy until you see a Memorandum signed by Bin Laden stating that he is the leader of Al Qaeda and another Memorandum signed by Bin Laden giving specific directions to Zarqawi.

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We never seem to acknowledge that we have been wrong in the past, and so might be wrong in the future. Instead, each generation writes off earlier errors as the result of bad thinking by less able minds-and then confidently embarks on fresh errors of its own. --Michael Crichton

Since al-Zarqawi and Al Qaeda were supporting opposite sides of the conflict in Iraq, it's hard to justify the claim that al-Zarqawi was an Al Qaeda operative. He attacked the Shia more than the US. This is not surprising since "Al Qaeda in Iraq" wasn't really focused on the US but rather on establishing control in Iraq.Where's the evidence, Tal?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Al Qaeda, arguably the most prolific terrorist organization in modern history, has no ties to terrorism? I suppose the PLO is also a legitimate wing of the government too...? Oh, I don't know Rrhain... Maybe, off the top of my head, it has something to do with the destruction they've managed to cause. Give all the people that were incinerated in 9/11 and Bhutto my regards. What?!?! Are you joking right now. Let me get this straight: You don't believe that Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. Is that correct? Or do you think that AQI (heavy emphasis on the "I") isn't a terrorist organization? We'll take it from there as soon as you answer. So, just let the country go to shit and call that "diplomacy?" Do you even know what the word diplomacy means? A lot of people seem to think it means just leave. Tal is there right NOW! And you're damn right I trust the boots on the ground quicker than I believe the media. The lies stem from the negative reports that the news disgustingly cover like a bunch of vultures. They don't mention the number of schools that have been built or the progress in general. No, instead they need to cater to your kind -- think the war is a total failure. I don't know how many veterans I meet that were there tell me about how the good things almost never get reported. Its only until AQI comes in a bombs the school that Reuters or the AP will come and do a story. LOL! Source, please...You could almost swear that you pray for disaster, just so you could say you were right. The libs do anything they can to undermine the effort.If you aren't going to stand behind the troops, then at least stand from of them.

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:But it appears the Surge has worked.

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The idea is to siege a city. We've done that a hundred times. But they come back. With the surge, you take that siege, and then you secure indefinitely. It has made the larger cities much safer.You keep doing this with the troop increase, until the entire country is secured -- as much as one can possibly secure a country of that size. Then the Iraqi government needs to grow some balls, get off mama's milk, and go out there and fight for their own country. Rrhain, honestly, where do you get your propaganda from -- Democracy Now? Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typos

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“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

Did you read "They have no connection to Al Qaeda,". Your posts assumes that this phrase is wrong but never says that it is or why. The whole point of what you are replying to is that AQI is not the same as AQ or even connected. (something I am not willing to accept to easily myself). You misread the most important part of the post you are replying to.

UNICEF reports that 700 were bombed, 200 burned and over 3,000 were looted between 2003 and 2004. It would be interesting to see what progress has been made towards getting this back up and running versus the damage done since.Anybody have any figures?Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

Ned, there is a difference between Abu Sayef and Al Qaeda. What are the differences? Geography and the name. That's it. Its the same group, with the same ideologies, with the same aspirations.Rrhain is alleging that the violence is only because of a civil war. That's not even remotely the case. Sectarian violence is just that -- sectarian violence.This is not to say that groups like Al Qaeda aren't funding the insurgency, because they are!If the people that refer to themselves, or who the Bush Administration refers to as, Al Qaeda (in Iraq), are not in fact affiliated with Al Qaeda, then who are they? Where are they getting money to support their effort? And how exactly do you know that they aren't affiliated with Al Qaeda?Was the assassination of Bhutto also not affiliated with AQ? Where are you getting your information?

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“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

According to AQ, no.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

You may object to the source, but it has been outlined.

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“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

Actually that doesn't have much info, but the December 2007 Repoert to Congress has a little. So according to the Report to Congress not that much progress has occurred and that honestly, we are saying it will be up to Iraq to fund most future infrastructure.You can read the full report here.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

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Was the assassination of Bhutto also not affiliated with AQ?

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You sure about that? Story after story says otherwise... Doesn't necessarily mean they actually did it, but it does mean they claim it. AskGoogleDogpile

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“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman