So difficult to keep up! (Re: Memeber of the religious right running morally amuck)

Huh?

Thanks, Rrhain. I've altered Wikipedia's article on Anal Sex accordingly.

Again, huh? Are these authors of studies, what?

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But, point taken.

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It's probably polygenetic. Epistatic. Some such.

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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it is partly genetic and partly not, like other behaviours such as alcoholism, organisational skills and intelligence.

Sorry. Thought you would recognize the names.Kleinfelters and Turners are chromosomal abnormalities.XXY and X0, respectively."Sex" is not very clear cut. Actually, IQ is thought to be polygenetic as well. Tho that is hotly contested.And I hardly think "organizational skills" even begin to compare to sexual orientation.I would agree that sexual orientation is a combination of both genetic and environmental influences; however, the emphasis is heavily on the genetic.The environmental influence that is most likely to affect sexual orientation is intrauterine biochemistry.I mentioned it earlier, but I think it bears repeating.Heterosexuals don't claim to "choose" their orientation, nor do they claim to have been influenced by environmental factors.While it very well may be the case that a particular person chooses intimacy with a member of the same sex due to ugly experiences with the opposite sex, the vast majority of folks just "are" homo or het.

Brenna contends that abuse (in this case sex abuse) influences sexual orientation.That was NJ's point as well. That homosexual men were raped as children. Got 'em hooked on the c***, I suppose. Warped their little minds.So. Again.Do the chimp victims of gang rape turn lesbo?

no. i contended that our experiences help shape our activities and behaviors by shaping how our minds work. this includes positive experiences as well.

Ah, yes. Sorry, I should have done really.That wasn't really my point though, what I mean is that XX = female is a very simple, straightforward genetic link. You have two XX chromosones, you're a woman; XY, you're a man - there's no environmental influence here. According to various studies referenced on Wikipedia inherited factors contribute between 0% and 60%. It's worth noting also that in Twin studies both should have had very similar intauterine biochemistry. Woah, there. I didn't say anything about 'ugly experiences', I'm not suggesting that orientation is determined in such crude ways. I also don't think people's suggestions of 'why' they are one thing or another can be relied on to any great degree.I don't think that the simplistic Choice/Born dichotomy actually describes how or why people end up with the personality traits they have.

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I don't think it is either, but in order to be persuasive to an irreligious group you can't give moral reasons because their version of morality is so flexible that it can justify what ever it desires.

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Is it normal to want to engage in oral sex?Is it natural for a woman to want to engage in sex at all?

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What once naturally repulsed people has now become more acceptable through desensitization and over-exposure to such practices.

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The idea that women could, and even should, actually enjoy sex "naturally" repulsed people. "Wanton" women were considered disgusting, morally bankrupt, a dangerous influence, and unfit mothers. Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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Yes, but with fellatio no one is vigorously moving so that cuts would occur.

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Er, Juggs?What about the teeth?

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Vaginitis or urinary infections can be caused by multiple things. (Especially since a penis doesn't go inside the urethra.

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What, you've never heard the term "Honeymoon Disease"?What that term refers to is the very prevalent occurence in women to get numerous, frequent UTI's after a sudden increase in sexual activity.I got three of them in the first two months of my marriage, with the third leading to a nasty, painful kidney infection.Happens to lots and lots of women.Funny how you don't call that "Straight Women's Nympho Disease" or something perjorative.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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having been groped and raped, i no longer see the difference between the two.

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Somebody shoves you so that you have to balance yourself in a couple of steps.Somebody punches you in the face repeatedly, and so hard that your nose is broken, a couple of teeth are knocked out, and you get a concussion.Do you see any difference between the two?

being randomly grabbed in a crowded nightclub.being groped by your friend's dad in her bedroom after church.do you see the difference?

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being randomly grabbed in a crowded nightclub.
being groped by your friend's dad in her bedroom after church.

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do you see the difference?

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Yes.The former is a stranger doing something inappropriate, but it is a public place, and you can take action by involving the bouncer or the police. Presumably, if you are in a nightclub, you are also an adult, and the "perp" is someone roughly in your own age group. Also, sexual tension and display is expected to be present in a nightclub so people in attendance would likely be prepared for such behavior.The latter is in secret, a trusted parental figure, in his house (both factors tip the power dynamic), is much older (also tips the power dynamic), and is the father of your friend (which makes calling attention to the situation very difficult, becasue you don't want to hurt her), and (if I assume correctly) the victim of abuse was underage or at least very young, therefore tipping the power dynamic again.Now, why don't you answer my question?

for me, the circumstances of my rape brought the same issues and questions as that second scenario. therefore, to me, they were the same. the violation felt the same and i felt equally powerless.as far as i'm concerned, that has nothing to do with being pushed or being punched.Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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for me, the circumstances of my rape brought the same issues and questions as that second scenario. therefore, to me, they were the same. the violation felt the same and i felt equally powerless.

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If someone is traumatized by a sexual assault in her past, it may certainly influence her reactions to any future unwanted contact that she perceives as sexual. But that doesn't make all unwanted contact equivalent.The adult in the nightclub and the kid(?) getting molested by her friend's dad in a bedroom in his house weren't actually equally powerless, for the reasons I mentioned.The analogy I was attempting to draw with the single shove and the severely damaging punching is that they are both a form of assault, but they differ in order of magnitude that is obvious to anyone looking from the outside.Similarly, someone, for example, grabbing my ass in a crowded nightclub is certainly unwanted, but it is NOT equivalent to being forcibly, penetratively raped, even though I may have strong emotional reactions to each event.They are physically different in order of magnitude regardless of my reaction to the events. That is obvious.Edited by nator, : No reason given.