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Author Topic:   On Judging Others
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 121 (340330)
08-15-2006 2:46 PM


The more I think about this injunction that we must not judge others, the sillier it seems. We judge people all the time. Moreover, why is the judgment of others always thought of in a negative sense? They are also favorable judgments. They are many different kinds of judgment.
There are moral judgments: "This man beat his wife. This is a bad man." "This man helped me a lot. This is a good man."
There are aesthetic judgments: "This woman is beautiful." "God,he looks terrible after his illness."
There are practical judgments: employers judge employees; teachers judge students.
There are judgments about behavior that have to do with social mores: "This man is rude. I don't like this man." "This woman is very polite. I like her."
The injunction not to judge others is a simple-minded notion. This is not the way life works.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-15-2006 5:20 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 08-15-2006 6:00 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-16-2006 6:53 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 56 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-17-2006 6:39 AM robinrohan has replied
 Message 63 by mitchellmckain, posted 08-18-2006 2:21 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 121 (340356)
08-15-2006 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
08-15-2006 5:20 PM


Re: don't look like judgements to me
Opinion can be synonymous with judgement by some definitions but when we are called to not judge, I don't think it means to not have opinions, I think it means to not assign the punishment.
In ordinary conversation, it means an opinion about somebody. If somebody says, as people often do, "I try not to be judgmental about people," this does not mean,"I try not to assign punishment." It means that the person tries not to have negative opinions about people. That sounds nice, but it leads to hypocrisy. Judgments are inevitable. The world runs by judgments.
It may not be the way that life works, but that doesn't mean it can't be something that we shouldn't do.
When I say that life works this way, I'm not saying that it's really too bad, but that's life. I'm saying that it is impossible for life to work any other way.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-15-2006 5:59 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 08-15-2006 6:15 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 121 (340368)
08-15-2006 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
08-15-2006 6:15 PM


political correctness
The kind that Jesus is teaching against are the kind that MISjudge others, or apply harsh standards, or say gossipy mean things, or impute nasty motives instead of giving the benefit of the doubt and that sort of thing.
Here's the odd thing about this little slogan, "I don't judge others."
It's really got nothing to do with Christianity. It's a part of the simpleminded morality we can call "political correctness."

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 Message 7 by Faith, posted 08-15-2006 6:15 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by docpotato, posted 08-16-2006 2:28 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 121 (340565)
08-16-2006 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by docpotato
08-16-2006 2:28 PM


Re: political correctness
Also: just what the hell is "political correctness" anyway? What does that even mean? I see this term bandied about by people all the time, but I don't know what on earth it's supposed to mean.
The term "politically correct" was originally a joke among liberals having to do mostly with race, gender, and groups of various sorts that might be discriminated against, such as people in wheelchairs. So the liberals had to be real careful not to offend anybody, such as calling a disabled person a "cripple" or something of that sort. The joke consisted of taking this agenda to the extreme. Through the years, the term "political correctness" came to stand for this agenda of not discriminating against anybody. In other words, we must not judge, for if we do we might offend somebody or some group.
Another slogan of political correctness is being "inclusive." Exclusivity is evil; inclusiveness is good.
Traditional Christianity, for example, is exclusive and therefore evil by politically correct standards.
New Age Christianity, such as Jar's religion, is inclusive and therefore good by politically correct standards.
Political correctness is a pretense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by docpotato, posted 08-16-2006 2:28 PM docpotato has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 08-16-2006 5:57 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 13 by nator, posted 08-16-2006 5:59 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 121 (340573)
08-16-2006 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by docpotato
08-16-2006 2:28 PM


Re: political correctness
Who really says this?
It's common and moreover it is said, I think, automatically, unthinkingly. It's ingrained within American culture. I don't know about European culture.

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 121 (340590)
08-16-2006 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by nator
08-16-2006 5:59 PM


Re: political correctness
So, if political correctness is actually a joke, and was never really meant to be taken seriously, then who actually holds to the idea?
It's not a joke. The term "politically correct" was originally a joke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by nator, posted 08-16-2006 5:59 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 08-16-2006 6:33 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 121 (340604)
08-16-2006 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by nator
08-16-2006 6:33 PM


Re: political correctness
But who actually holds to the idea?
It's so much a part of our culture that we hardly notice it. I can give you a very good example from this forum. On one thread I was talking about an experience I had when I visited the VA hospital. I was walking around and saw some old men out in a little park where one is allowed to smoke. They were obviously old vets--many missing limbs. My comment on this forum was, "My heart went out to them."
What I got in return was a barrage of accusations that I was "dehumanizing" these old men because I felt sorry for them.
Political correctness.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Heathen, posted 08-16-2006 6:57 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 38 by MangyTiger, posted 08-16-2006 7:31 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 121 (340611)
08-16-2006 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
08-16-2006 6:50 PM


Re: political correctness
"Political Correct" is a term folk love to trot out, usually when their position has been shown to be absurd, bigotted, ridiculous or completely unsupportable
No, it's a moral system. Your illogical religion is built upon its ideas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 08-16-2006 6:50 PM jar has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 121 (340617)
08-16-2006 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Hyroglyphx
08-16-2006 6:53 PM


Re: What does judging mean?
But when Jesus told us not to judge others it was in direct context with hypocritical people who condemn people for a certain action, but then turn around and do the same thing.
I'm not sure, but I think you may be right about that. But the ubiquity of the "judge not" idea is not in American culture due to Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-16-2006 6:53 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-16-2006 7:24 PM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 121 (340629)
08-16-2006 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Quetzal
08-16-2006 7:23 PM


Re: political correctness
The term American itself is a crappy one, IMO
There's a part of me that agrees with you completely. It's that boasting side of American culture.
Why do we call it the "World Series"? It should be called "The Pro baseball championship series of the USA" or something. It's not a world wide event.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Quetzal, posted 08-16-2006 7:23 PM Quetzal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by docpotato, posted 08-16-2006 7:40 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 121 (340635)
08-16-2006 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by docpotato
08-16-2006 7:40 PM


Re: political correctness
Is that an example of Political Correctness?
Calling it the World Series is very unpolitically correct. My objection to it could be called political correctness, I suppose.
It's not ALL bad.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by docpotato, posted 08-16-2006 7:40 PM docpotato has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by docpotato, posted 08-16-2006 7:46 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 121 (340638)
08-16-2006 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by docpotato
08-16-2006 7:46 PM


Re: political correctness
Not trying to implicate or point a finger. Just trying to understand. Should be a new topic, I guess.
No, go ahead. If you want to talk about boasting Americans, I agree completely. It makes me want to puke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by docpotato, posted 08-16-2006 7:46 PM docpotato has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 121 (340642)
08-16-2006 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by MangyTiger
08-16-2006 7:31 PM


Re: political correctness
Could you give a link to this please?
I've been trying, but I couldn't get "search" to work. It's in the thread called "The Boasts of Atheists."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by MangyTiger, posted 08-16-2006 7:31 PM MangyTiger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by MangyTiger, posted 08-16-2006 9:03 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 121 (340743)
08-17-2006 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by MangyTiger
08-16-2006 9:03 PM


Re: political correctness
However, without wishing to appear to be trying to read minds I suspect the response you got had more to do with the persona you adopt on this board and the reaction it provokes in people than with Political Correctness.
My feeling is what you said was misinterpreted (and that was because the people involved put a bad - and in my opinion unjustified - interpretation on what you said).
It was misintepreted because of their knee-jerk politically correct reaction.
One must not feel sympathy for anybody because that means you are judging them--a rule of politically correct morality that stifles naturally good sympathetic feelings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by MangyTiger, posted 08-16-2006 9:03 PM MangyTiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by nator, posted 08-18-2006 10:19 AM robinrohan has replied
 Message 85 by Discreet Label, posted 08-18-2006 7:40 PM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 121 (340746)
08-17-2006 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Archer Opteryx
08-17-2006 6:39 AM


Re: Judging others
Ah, but there is none. Each standard is a custom fit, and we are the tailors.
Very well expressed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-17-2006 6:39 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

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