castor oil packs-real treatment or quackery?

According to articles on transdermal absorption, a substance needs to have a molecular weight below 500 to be able to penetrate the stratum corneum. Castor Oil has a molecular weight of 298.From this we can extrapolate that the castor oil has the potential to make it through the first barrier of skin.The thickness of the Epidermis varies from 0.12-0.17mm and the Dermis varies from 1-2mm.

quote:

---

AFAICT, you never had a blood test to check your hormone levels.

---

Not much I an do about that since the MDs didn't authorize the test, but made the determination. Plus it was several years ago.

quote:

---

What I wonder is why you only use "natural" sources, when they have in general shown again and again that they are not bound to evidence as the basis for their claims?

---

Not sure what illness you are talking about, but concerning the unopposed estrogen, I didn't. I used the medication the GYN prescribed. It is not something that should be used for a prolonged period of time though.My main purpose in the castor oil packs is the gallstones.As we look at this we might be able to discern whether the castor oil has the potential to "detoxify" or help the body remove xenoestrogen.

---

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

No. Ricinoleic acid, which can be obtained chemically from castor oil but is not present uncombined in it, has that molecular weight. Castor oil itself would have a molecular weight around 930 or so - three ricinoleics chemically tied to one molecule of glycerine. Edited by Coragyps, : fix typo

quote:

---

Castor oil itself would have a molecular weight around 930 or so - three ricinoleics chemically tied to one molecule of glycerine.

---

Well, that seems to bugger PD's argument and bolster mine quite a lot.

quote:

---

Ricinoleic acid, which can be obtained chemically from castor oil but is not present uncombined in it, has that molecular weight. Castor oil itself would have a molecular weight around 930 or so

---

Does that preclude any portion of the oil from being absorbed given that the oil is warmed before application and a heating pad is used during the process. The pack is kept on for one hour.Transdermal patches aren't heated.William A McGarey, M.D. tested castor oil packs for 30 years in his practice. "The Oil That Heals, A Physician's Successes With Castor Oil Treatments, by William A. McGarey, M.D." The research carried out at the Meridian Institute found no epoxydicarboxylic acids in the subjects urine as with an oral dosage.This study shows that even small amounts of castor oil taken orally are not excreted. This test doesn't really negate the effectiveness of the castor oil packs. But it shows that it doesn't take much for our bodies to use.The castor oil packs would provide a small amount, but bypass the digestive route.So the question is, what part of the oil is being absorbed and why does it affect the lymphocytes?

INCHEM does seem to be a valid site with no commercial interests.

Well, I did a little digging and the only thing I could find was that prolonged exposure to castor oil on the skin can cause dermatitis and eczema

quote:

---

So the question is, what part of the oil is being absorbed and why does it affect the lymphocytes?

---

You still haven't shown any evidence that any castor oil is being absorbed through the skin into the underlying tissues.You still haven't shown any evidence that, IF the castor oil is being absorbed into the underlying tissues, that it somehow is able to bypass or pass through fat, muscle, connective tissue bone, other organs, and bodily fluids and head straight to your gall bladder, overies, liver, appendix, intestines, other pelvic organs, brain (for the epilepsy), etc., nor how it knows to not do anything to those tissues and only work on the problem you want to to work on.Wounded King already provided a possible reason for why the lymphocyte would would go up here; very low-level ricin poisoning. And I'm not about to take McGarey's word for anything, considering he thinks that the castor oil may get to your organs with it's "vibrations." I'm not going to accept any of his claims until I see the text of the A.R.E. study so I can read it myself.Do you have a reference so I can go to the local University medical library an look it up? (even though this is something that you, as the claimant, aught to be doing)

McGarey, a medical doctor, has used castor oil as a remedy in his medical practice for over 30 years and has documented the outcomes for various ailments.At this time no one that I know of can say why castor oil works, but apparently it has been used successfully through the ages for various ailments.Do you know why aspirin works? You know what it is supposed to do, but do you know why or how it works for various problems? How does the aspirin know whether it is dealing with a headache or arthritis, pain or inflamation?Just as aspirin doesn't work for all people, castor oil also doesn't work for all people.So stop asking questions there are no answers for.If you want to brainstorm the possibilities then add something constructive to the discussion, otherwise we really don't have anything to discuss.Excerpt from McGarey's book: More recently. Just because we don't know why something works, doesn't mean it doesn't work.Out of curiosity, what have I claimed? I shared a remedy prescribed to me. I haven't claimed that it works, because gallstones take time to reverse. So I don't know yet. It will be a few years before I can say. Even from a medical standpoint it takes 3-4 years to reverse gallstones.In Message 7 I said: So what I am presenting is according to what I have read from various sources.In Message 15 I said: I don't have the answers, I just gave Schraf what I've found in books to help explain what the packs supposedly do.

---

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

If I were going to break castor oil down to its components, I'd get a tad more severe with it than that. The classic way is the same as soapmaking - boiling hot with caustic soda. Boiling in methanol and water with sulfuric acid works, too. Warming and putting on the skin, not very effective, though, I fear.

I don't, in detail, but that knowledge is pretty widely available in stultifying detail: my bet would be there are a couple of hundred pounds of papers in scientific journals on the subject.http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/asa_cp.htm What bullcrap! That's actually true, I suppose: true in the same sense that it is for every imaginable synthetic or natural compound you could make, from LSD to nerve gas to chamomile oil. Edgar Cayce? Of the "safelands" and all the psychic powers? Puh-LEEEEEZE! PD, you're killing your argument here!

Castor Oil is considered an emollient which softens or relaxes the skin and I've always understood that heat causes skin pores to open. These are factors that may aid in allowing absorption.To affect the lymphocytes something seems to be getting through.

But even your link on aspirin has "may be due to" and "it appears to". There is also a "mode of action is not known". They know the effects, but they don't know why.

quote:

---

What bullcrap! That's actually true, I suppose: true in the same sense that it is for every imaginable synthetic or natural compound you could make, from LSD to nerve gas to chamomile oil.

---

So it has potential. Doesn't "vibration" increase with heat?While other natural or synthetic compounds may "vibrate", they wouldn't have the same make up.

quote:

---

Edgar Cayce? Of the "safelands" and all the psychic powers? Puh-LEEEEEZE! PD, you're killing your argument here!

---

What is my argument? I thought we were looking at whether castor oil packs do work or if they could work. McGarey is an MD who has used the packs on patients with positive results. There are other MDs who have also prescribed the use of castor oil packs.Whether you like Cayce or not, he popularized the use of castor oil packs. Dr. McGarey studied and tested the concepts found in the Cayce readings. He documented usages that worked. His testing was financed by a grant from the Fetzer Foundation.Supposedly a more recent study was done by Harvey Grady. Carolyn DeMarco, M.D.So the castor oil packs seem to work for various ailments. The how still alludes us.

T11 positive (more commonly referred to as CD2 positive) T lymphocytes are involved in the inflammatory response. CD2 binds with the ligand LFA-3, which is expressed by dendritic cells and endothelial cells, so plays a crucial role in the recruitment and migration of lymphocytes to the site of inflammation. This interaction between CD2 and LFA-3 has been identified in inflammatory diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and psoriasis.
Therefore this reported increase in lymphocytes could be the result of a localised inflammatory response; the castor oil does not even need to be absorbed through the dermis into the circulation.
The article you linked to also seems to show a lack of understanding in how the immune system works (I hope this is not a reflection of what was written in the original study). Aside from the obvious fact that T lymphocytes don't produce antibodies, it makes this sweeping assumption that an increase in lymphocytes represents a general boost in the immune system. The boost in lymphocytes is the result of clonal proliferation to a specific antigen, and once this antigen is eradicated, the majority of these lymphocyte clones will die (monitoring of lymphocyte number for longer than 24 hours would be advisable). Furthermore, the way the immune system is initiated will affect how effective it is at dealing with different pathogens e.g. if it is activated in response to a bacterial infection, it will be less able to deal with a viral infection.

But the lymphocyte B cells do produce antibodies and the T cells help the B cells.The excerpt stated that there was a concomitant (happening together) increase in the number of total lymphocytes. Tampa Bay Research InstituteThe author of the article didn't seem to be quoting the report, so his general comment about lymphocytes is probably his own thought and not from the report.

quote:

---

The boost in lymphocytes is the result of clonal proliferation to a specific antigen, and once this antigen is eradicated, the majority of these lymphocyte clones will die

---

Since the castor oil packs are used when there is something wrong with the body, there doesn't seem to be a need for a permanent rise in the lymphocytes. Pack application varies from daily to weekly.Any idea how the liver funtions when there is a rise in lymphocytes or if any other part of the body is affected?

You have me wondering now, PD: a nice thorough study of packs made with 1) castor oil 2) lard 3) lard with an appropriate amount of ricin to make it mimic 1) added in. Chemically, all are near-identical. It would be interesting to see if lymphocytes care at all which "treatment" they get.