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Author Topic:   authority and respect
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 2 of 30 (281456)
01-25-2006 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Silent H
01-25-2006 6:08 AM


More words
The equivocation between power and authority is useful and has become so commonplace that we use the term interchangeably.
Holmes,
Maybe you can go ahead and give the definition of authority that you're targetting? Because the first definition at dictionary.com seems to be this "commonplace mistake" that you're arguing against:
1.
a. The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.
b. One that is invested with this power, especially a government or body of government officials: land titles issued by the civil authority.
404: This page could not be found
If that's so, then... I think there's not much hope of useful discussion. You can argue all day that it's useful to use words in certain ways, but (trying to use holmes' desired definitions) as you talk about here, without power, authority can be useless.
Anyway, I don't think people, when using this first definition of "authority", really mix it with other definitions
4.
a. An accepted source of expert information or advice: a noted authority on birds; a reference book often cited as an authority.
I have a feeling this discussion will simply go into discussing the pros and cons of individual pronunciations (words?) having multiple meanings. But I thought I'd ask more before heading in that direction.
Ben

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Silent H, posted 01-25-2006 6:08 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Silent H, posted 01-25-2006 8:55 AM Ben! has not replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 13 of 30 (281602)
01-25-2006 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Silent H
01-25-2006 1:47 PM


Re: More words
Just skipping around and tossing out thoughts, like a flower girl tossing white rose petals at a wedding
Sorry, been reading too many Omni posts.
For example I can see that regardless of any failings, Bush is likely personable and well intentioned, and extremely loyal. I have to respect that about him. Heck its probably why I favored him over Gore in 2000.
I don't think I'd call this "respect". Or, if you wanted to call this "respect", then I'd agree with your comment
Perhaps there are different types of respect.
The kind of "respect" you talk about above, and what I wouldn't call respect, is a situation where you make a judgement about a person. Above, you judge some qualities of Bush to be good, so you say you'd "respect" them. I'd just say, I like them and think they're good.
OK, on second thought... I might use the word respect. Especially for someone who is older, and who I think has qualities that I aspire to. I do think this is a very different use of the word "respect."
The other kind of respect, the one I think that is relevant here, is all about two things: behavior, and lack of judgement. To me, respect means you give a person some kind of honorable treatment not because of your own judgement, but because of the position of that person. Either they are held in high esteem to somebody that matters (i.e. girlfriend, parent, colleague), or they hold a position for which some social norms of respectful behavior have been established (often about power!).
I think the first type of respect is not important for positions of power, but the second is. There are usually well-established social norms for how to treat people in power, how to go about having your voice listened to, etc. Sure, sometimes you have to work outside the social systems... but normally, it is important to work within those boundaries.
Intriguingly its a respect that does not lead to any sense of authority for that person. Like he could be a neighbor, but I wouldn't want him captain of my team.
He's the president of the United States. If you don't treat him with respect, there's all sorts of problems. For example, if too many people don't go through the proper channels to be heard, then it's likely that they simply get tuned out; the president is a busy guy. If you ridicule him, then you show outsiders that we have weak support within our own country, that we're not working united. If you throw tomatos at him, you simply distract the prez from doing real work, you distract the issues from what is important, and add no value.
We shake hands. Or bow. Or offer a gift. And dress nicely, and speak in a certain way. All to show our willingness to work together. We use protocols to communicate our willingness to work together constructively. A lack of respect without purpose is a dangerous thing.
A lack of respect due to a failure to succeed through proper channels is a different story. I guess that's what your OP is about, and I guess that's really what I should be addressing. But I wrote enough for now, so ... back to work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Silent H, posted 01-25-2006 1:47 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Silent H, posted 01-26-2006 8:58 AM Ben! has not replied

  
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