Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,810 Year: 3,067/9,624 Month: 912/1,588 Week: 95/223 Day: 6/17 Hour: 2/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Let's talk about drugs
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 107 (393393)
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


As many of you already know, the United States is the biggest consumer in the world of illegal drugs. Drug lords everywhere in the world are making literally hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars off of our fat asses.
I guess beyond that, I really don't have much to say about it. I've always tended to stay away from the issue of drugs because, frankly, I haven't had much of an opinion on the issue. I think of myself as too ignorant about the critical facts about these things to have any kind of opinion.
Recently, I've begun to have some interest in the issue because the career I'm trying to switch to has something to do with it. (No, I'm not going to give up programming to become a drug lord.) I'd like to hear from both/all sides of the argument on the issue of drugs. Should certain drugs be legalized or should all illegal drugs stay illegal? How do we effectively deal with foreign drug imports? How do we effectively, realistically, and humanely deal with Americans who use and deal drugs? Should all drug users and dealers be exported to Canada?

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-04-2007 9:45 PM Taz has replied
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 04-05-2007 6:39 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 6 by kjsimons, posted 04-05-2007 8:46 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 8 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-05-2007 12:14 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 9 by RickJB, posted 04-05-2007 12:33 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 12 by Lithodid-Man, posted 04-06-2007 7:33 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 13 by olrea29, posted 04-12-2007 4:24 AM Taz has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 2 of 107 (393399)
04-04-2007 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


you're gonna be a narc aren't you? fuckass.
that's all.
no really. fuck you.
anyways. i recently read a story about how "mom and pop" american meth labs becoming so restricted has opened the doors for a more addictive and potent version of the drug being produced in mexico. (also provides diarhea. couldn't resist.) so now they're taking our black market drug trade too!!! while the US may be a huge user of illegal drugs, from what i hear, more people in the US abuse prescription drugs than illegal substances. i think that most illegal drugs could probably used fairly responsibly if regulated (even to drug retreats where you go and use for a day, then detox for a day then go home). some illegal substances are not necessarily addictive on their own but become that way (or more so) because of impurities and additives. if we could regulate it, and tax it, we could immediate legitimize millions of jobs, not to mention 30% of american black men which are currently in our prisons would be free to pursue legitimate economy. further, by keeping production stateside, we reduce or eliminate the funding drugs provide for terrorists and revolutionaries and give foreign farmers a chance to grow FOOD. alcohol is legal and it is entirely possible to responsibly use that and it can be a horribly deadly substance. with proper control, many (not all, maybe) have the potential to become a normal part of extra-sensory recreation. i promise it won't increase consumption, and especially not habitual consumption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-04-2007 8:05 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 04-05-2007 12:00 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 107 (393409)
04-05-2007 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by macaroniandcheese
04-04-2007 9:45 PM


Let me guess, it's that time of the month, right? Hahaha

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-04-2007 9:45 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-05-2007 12:57 AM Taz has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 4 of 107 (393410)
04-05-2007 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
04-05-2007 12:00 AM


nope. just being funny.
thank god for depo, i no longer have that issue. i'm just a bitch normally <3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 04-05-2007 12:00 AM Taz has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 107 (393432)
04-05-2007 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


Taz writes:
Should certain drugs be legalized or should all illegal drugs stay illegal? How do we effectively deal with foreign drug imports? How do we effectively, realistically, and humanely deal with Americans who use and deal drugs?
Pot should be legalized for people over 18. The reason being that it would deprive the criminal element of as big a profit.
Meth should remain illegal and the penalties for production and distribution should be harsh.
Beyond that I have no comment. I think prescription drugs should be cheaper, however.
As for how to deal with Americans, I can say that I deal with a lot of juveniles who have distributed and used drugs, and I think that for them, education and a broadened perspective should be taught to them about choices and consequences.
As for Adults? If they are dealing, throw them in jail or better yet, fine the crap out of them. Laws must be upheld.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-04-2007 8:05 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 04-05-2007 11:47 AM Phat has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 6 of 107 (393447)
04-05-2007 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


You think the US would have learned from the failure of prohibition that simply making something illegal and jailing people for creating, distributing or consuming it doesn't work. I personally feel that the only proper thing to do is to legalize all drugs but strongly discourage the use of the more harmfull (ie addictive, body damaging) ones through education and public programs. This might increase some aspects of the drug problems but it could save billions in reduced drug enforcement, jailings and all the money spent by the US in the drug producing countries to try and stem production. I also think the deathrate due to the violence inherit in the whole drug war would fall dramitically. It's time to end the war on drugs!
Edited by kjsimons, : spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-04-2007 8:05 PM Taz has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 7 of 107 (393482)
04-05-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
04-05-2007 6:39 AM


Phat writes:
Pot should be legalized for people over 18. The reason being that it would deprive the criminal element of as big a profit.
When Prohibition ended, the gangsters didn't magically disappear- they moved into other enterprizes (see The Sopranos). Legalizing pot would only increase the labour pool for the meth industry.
When I was a teenager, nearly all the pot in Canada was imported. The authorities cracked down on smuggling and today it's nearly all home grown. (Ironic twist of fate there: jobs moving from Mexico to Canada long before NAFTA.)
You can't pump all the water out of the ocean. You can't stop one lucrative business and not expect another to take its place.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 04-05-2007 6:39 AM Phat has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 107 (393488)
04-05-2007 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


Many drugs are delicious and good for you. They should be immediately legalized and freely distributed.
There are also drugs that will fuck you up fiercely. They should be immediately legalized so the government can regulate them.
This is such an astonishing no-brainer that I can't believe there's even a "drug issue" in this country.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-04-2007 8:05 PM Taz has not replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 9 of 107 (393492)
04-05-2007 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


Legalise pot and MDMA. Tax and sell with government control.
Legalise cocaine and opiates and strictly medicalise their distribution. This will make them cheaper, safer and far less glamourous.
Leave seriously nasty crap like meth and crack illegal. Since these are either easily homemade or a derivative of cocaine the trick here will be to try to shift addicts to medically controlled opiates and cocaine. From there their addiction can be more easily managed.
Of course the devil lies in the details of such proposals, but the "system" in place at the moment is clearly not working...
That is all!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-04-2007 8:05 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Vacate, posted 04-06-2007 12:59 AM RickJB has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 10 of 107 (393501)
04-05-2007 1:31 PM


I don't care what you do just so you leave caffeine alone!

  
Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 11 of 107 (393619)
04-06-2007 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by RickJB
04-05-2007 12:33 PM


far less glamourous
I tend to think that a change in the education system regarding drug use "may" help. In my job I have seen the worst of the worst in terms of what drug abuse can do. Any question of using cocaine, heroin, crack etc has been burned out of me when I see its results.
Its sad that people can find it glamourous to fry their brain and destroy any chance for their offspring to function.
Has anyone here done cpr on a person that has died from choking on their own feces? Anyone seen the inside of a skull after the person has smashed their own head into a cement wall? Glamorous?
I take care of these people after they can no longer take care of themselves. Or I take care of their children because they where too selfish to reconsider having a child while being an addict.
Perhaps if more people knew that the end of the road for drug use is not always death - its having people care for your every need because your brain has liquified to the point you no longer can think enough to know not to drink out of an unflushed toilet.
The nice thing is that others drug abuse has given me a long term job with a good wage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by RickJB, posted 04-05-2007 12:33 PM RickJB has not replied

  
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2930 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 12 of 107 (393651)
04-06-2007 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


War on Drugs
I am a complete non-user of illegal drugs. Have been for well over a decade. I had a quite illustrious past with such things but do not in any way advocate them. But I do not support the modern prohibition of such, and think it is one of the most harmful aspects of modern society.
In addition, my scientific reason lends me to think that the powers that be are not opposed to illegal drugs, just their prohibition. In our state and others the meth problem is being dealt with by prohibition on purchases of ephedrin-derivative products like some cold medicines. Sounds like a good idea, in practice. BUT even here in my town in Alaska I can go to our local hardware store and buy a gallon of muriatic acid (Who outside of industrial cleaners needs a gallon of muriatic acid?) which is another critical ingrediant of meth! So rather than putting cold medicine behind the counter (you can order cold medicine from inumerable sellers online) wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper to restrict the sale of muriatic acid? Or red phosphorous? (Another critical ingrediant, learned from TV). The point is, that if the goverment really wanted to eliminate meth it would be easy, just control a few hard to get chemicals. But instead we have restrictions on cold medications. Perhaps the easiest to get of meth ingredients. Hmmm.....
Great way to show you are doing something? One the public can see? Now claiming that the efforts are so successful that now our meth problem is from Mexico. And a 'new' form called ice. Ice has been around since I was in high school 20+ years ago. IT IS NOT NEW.
Forgive my paranoia, been watching the complete Penn & Teller Bullshit series, eye opening, even for a skeptic!

Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-04-2007 8:05 PM Taz has not replied

  
olrea29
Junior Member (Idle past 6195 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 04-09-2007


Message 13 of 107 (394553)
04-12-2007 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-04-2007 8:05 PM


hello
Whewwww.. Nice topic!!!
Im glad i didnt even try to used drugs caused i know there nothing good about drugs.
educational videos

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-04-2007 8:05 PM Taz has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 14 of 107 (394581)
04-12-2007 11:57 AM


Where to draw the line
Disclaimer : Non-user
As soon as you start talking legalization, one of the first questions to come up is - "where do we draw the line?"
Do me make pot legal, but keep coke illegal? Etc.
I have a simple solution to this problem, one that would be clear to anyone trying to make a distinction about any given new drug.
Processing is illegal. If you can pick it, you can do what you want it with. If you have to make it, you can't.
Poppies? Legal. Opium, illegal.
Pot? Legal.
Mushrooms? Legal.
Katt (or however you spell it. Africian stimulant)? Legal.
Crystal Meth? Illegal.
I have a lot of trouble with a system that makes a "weed" which can grow wildly almost anywhere in the US illegal.

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 04-12-2007 12:18 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 16 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-12-2007 1:51 PM Nuggin has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 15 of 107 (394585)
04-12-2007 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 11:57 AM


Re: Where to draw the line
Nuggin writes:
If you can pick it, you can do what you want it with.
So I can grow a thousand acres of marijuana right beside the highway?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Nuggin, posted 04-12-2007 11:57 AM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Nuggin, posted 04-12-2007 2:17 PM ringo has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024