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Author Topic:   What is a Liberal, and What is a Conservative?
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 1 of 254 (137843)
08-29-2004 1:29 PM


Spinning this off of the Today on Meet the Press, the Clintons, and perhaps also the other political topics.
Adminnemooseus

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1548 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 254 (137847)
08-29-2004 1:40 PM


You're a liberal if you think that things suck because we haven't changed them yet.
You're a conservative if you think things suck because we changed them.

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 254 (137850)
08-29-2004 2:03 PM


Conservative - one who supports programs and policies that protect the privileges and power of the elite.
Liberal - a conservative with a conscience.

Replies to this message:
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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 254 (137852)
08-29-2004 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chiroptera
08-29-2004 2:03 PM


both are BS labels. Essentially, most people fall towards teh middle, with various views that are not encompessed entirely by either label. Of course, the one common trait to people who label themselves as one or the other seems to be a demonization of the other side.
This message has been edited by Darwin Storm, 08-29-2004 01:14 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Chiroptera, posted 08-29-2004 2:24 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 254 (137854)
08-29-2004 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Darwin Storm
08-29-2004 2:13 PM


Labels are not entirely BS. Sometimes people do have definite ideological beliefs -- by this I mean a person just doesn't go down a list of policies and checks "yes" and "no", but actually have an underlying theory about the purposes and functions about society and base their decisions on this -- and will themselves accept a label themselves.
I do agree with your point that often there is no real meaning to the word "consrvative" or "liberal" other than a derogatory label to pin on your opponent. But that is why I asked this question in the other thread (my flippant answer here notwithstanding) -- to try to get people to think about what these words mean when they apply them.
As I've stated before, is seems that a lot of political discourse is just shouting slogans without really thinking about what, if anything, your slogan means. On the other hand, if we are really going to try to discuss social problems I think it does help to categorize the suggested solutions so as to try to figure out what the underlying assumptions are and to evaluate them.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 816 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 6 of 254 (137855)
08-29-2004 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
08-29-2004 1:29 PM


In my part of Texas:
Conservative - a good citizen; one who acknowledges Rush as a wise, wise man; see Republican
Liberal - a scum-sucking unpatriotic commie pinko abortionist bastard, probably homosexual; also, a welfare recipient.
And I fit in part a) of the "liberal" definition, apparently.

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2384 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 7 of 254 (137857)
08-29-2004 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
08-29-2004 1:29 PM


Here is an interesting site I found back in 2000. I'd be interested in where people fall on this chart.
The Political Compass
I am right in the middle of the left/libertarian quadrant.

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 254 (137861)
08-29-2004 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Asgara
08-29-2004 2:36 PM


Hmm. I ended up a little more to the left and down -- -8.00 on economic and -7.44 on social. Probably not surprising, since I consider myself an anarchist, but maybe it is surprising considering that the test questions seem to take capitalism for granted and seemed to ask only for the degree of control of corporations by the central state. No questions about cooperatives or collectivization.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 816 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 9 of 254 (137862)
08-29-2004 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Asgara
08-29-2004 2:36 PM


That's where I am, too, Asgara. I like that approach to classification!

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1321 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 10 of 254 (137865)
08-29-2004 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Asgara
08-29-2004 2:36 PM


I was put in the left/libertarian quandrant too but not in the middle like one ore two over towards the right. The questions are biased, based on a liberal's opinion obviously though.
Economic Left/Right: -4.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.33
This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 08-29-2004 02:24 PM

peace

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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 254 (137871)
08-29-2004 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Chiroptera
08-29-2004 2:24 PM


To a great extent the problem, the problem I see with the liberal/conservitive argument is that it is presented as a dichotomy, as if there are only two alternatives. Frankly, many of my views are represented by neither party. Frankly, I am for minimal government and government interference in any aspect of our lives beyond certain neccesary functions, such as defense, education, transportation (or transportation management), and to regulate commerace to prevent abuse, fraud, or monopolies. Beyond that, I think we really need to question the cost and benefit of any program. However, many people support programs or idealogies without regard to the costs, which is not only impractical, it is dangerous. There may be some other programs, that we as a society deem neccesary, but they should only be implemented after rigerous debate. To take on the label of conservitive or liberal seems to mean accepting a polictical and social view that seems to push its own agenda first without regards to either the public as a whole or the impact on people as individuals. I know this isn't entirely accurate, but there again is the problem with painting broad strokes with labels.

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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 254 (137874)
08-29-2004 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Trump won
08-29-2004 3:23 PM


I will agree with you on that. Reading through the survey, it was defintely one of the more baised poltical survey's I have seen.

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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 254 (137875)
08-29-2004 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Chiroptera
08-29-2004 3:09 PM


It also failed to address indivuality and personal responsiblity, so there you go, it ignored several political aspects.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1321 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 14 of 254 (137914)
08-29-2004 6:11 PM


check out the other features on that site, look at the 2004 primary thing. Check out Iconochasms too.

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 15 of 254 (137920)
08-29-2004 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Asgara
08-29-2004 2:36 PM


Compass
Thanks. I did a similar one last year and ended up in the LL quadrant as I did here. Don't know if the numbers are really that quantifiable, but I am a little to the left and lower that Ghandi. That pleases me.
It would be interesting to have everyone post their numbers to see where the forum as whole lines up when plotted (similar to the other correlation questions).
ps -- I didn't think you couldn't not be a double negative ....
E -7.25 and S -7.33 and proud of it.
heh.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
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